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At will employment. The new contract can be dropped off at your desk this afternoon for any reason. You can quit, or argue (aka fired for argumentativeness),

by VLM 10y ago

At will employment. The new contract can be dropped off at your desk this afternoon for any reason. You can quit, or argue (aka fired for argumentativeness), or refuse to sign (fired for insubordination). It is highly confrontational for a company to do this. The company is stating its willing to ruin your life over nothing, literally nothing, just for the sadistic joy of it, so you better be able to ruin the company as best you can, to keep up.

beagle3 10y ago
And a company with this practice is going to have a hard time hiring anyone who can find a job elsewhere.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  Still leads to a bunch of people getting screwed. Even if those people aren't good engineers, they still don't deserve to be fucked by the company.
  - beagle3 10y ago
    That's true of course. I was just remarking that baiting with a reasonable contract and then switching to a bad one looks, from an employee standpoint, much much worse than originally being offered a bad contract. I seriously research any job or contract or freelance offer before I take it, and things like this don't hide.
mikekchar 10y ago
It's pretty much the same issue, though. If you are desperate for a job, then of course sign whatever you need to. But if you're not, don't sign. One fairly large company I worked with tried to pull this nonsense on me. HR sent me a new contract to sign (which had unfavourable terms). I told them that I was already under contract and unless they were terminating my contract, I was not going to sign another one. They told me that I would be fired if I didn't sign it. So I marched down to the legal department and said, "HR tells me I will be fired if I don't sign this contract. Is that really what you want to do". Half an hour later I had an apology from HR. At least in Canada (where I worked) forcing someone to sign a contract under duress (being threatened with losing one's job) makes it not a contract. Legal knew very well that this was leading to lawsuit that they would lose and made the right choice. I'm not saying it will always work. I was once sued by an employer for breach of contract when I left despite following the terms of the contract perfectly. Some people/companies are just nasty. I was lucky in that my new employer had thousands of lawyers on staff and threw a couple their way, making my problem disappear. You need to understand your position. Things are not always fair. You will not win every battle. However, it is a good idea to avoid these kinds of things from the beginning if you can. Not every company is run like this. Vote with your feet. Work for companies that have good policies. And when you find one and you feel you can trust management, do what you can to stay there and make it successful. Good companies exist.

by VLM 10y ago

beagle3 10y ago

And a company with this practice is going to have a hard time hiring anyone who can find a job elsewhere.

st3v3r 10y ago
Still leads to a bunch of people getting screwed. Even if those people aren't good engineers, they still don't deserve to be fucked by the company.
- beagle3 10y ago
  That's true of course. I was just remarking that baiting with a reasonable contract and then switching to a bad one looks, from an employee standpoint, much much worse than originally being offered a bad contract. I seriously research any job or contract or freelance offer before I take it, and things like this don't hide.

mikekchar 10y ago

It's pretty much the same issue, though. If you are desperate for a job, then of course sign whatever you need to. But if you're not, don't sign. One fairly large company I worked with tried to pull this nonsense on me. HR sent me a new contract to sign (which had unfavourable terms). I told them that I was already under contract and unless they were terminating my contract, I was not going to sign another one. They told me that I would be fired if I didn't sign it. So I marched down to the legal department and said, "HR tells me I will be fired if I don't sign this contract. Is that really what you want to do". Half an hour later I had an apology from HR. At least in Canada (where I worked) forcing someone to sign a contract under duress (being threatened with losing one's job) makes it not a contract. Legal knew very well that this was leading to lawsuit that they would lose and made the right choice. I'm not saying it will always work. I was once sued by an employer for breach of contract when I left despite following the terms of the contract perfectly. Some people/companies are just nasty. I was lucky in that my new employer had thousands of lawyers on staff and threw a couple their way, making my problem disappear. You need to understand your position. Things are not always fair. You will not win every battle. However, it is a good idea to avoid these kinds of things from the beginning if you can. Not every company is run like this. Vote with your feet. Work for companies that have good policies. And when you find one and you feel you can trust management, do what you can to stay there and make it successful. Good companies exist.