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> What we are seeing now is IMO hypocrisy and contempt of ordinary people at a scary level. This isn't anything new. It's the justification for all the bureauc

by maratd 10y ago

> What we are seeing now is IMO hypocrisy and contempt of ordinary people at a scary level. This isn't anything new. It's the justification for all the bureaucratic layering in government. The people are too stupid/bigoted/whatever to make decisions for themselves, so we'll make it for them.

chimprich 10y ago
> The people are too stupid/bigoted/whatever to make decisions for themselves, so we'll make it for them. You make this sounds like a bad thing. Of course this is true; this is why we have governments rather than have everyone voting on every decision. Many people are too stupid, or at least misinformed, to weigh up complex decisions. We don't ask people to vote on tax levels and spending plans because they'd tend to vote in lower taxes and higher spending. This was very similar to what was promised by the Exit team: continued access to the internal market but that they would no longer have to pay for it. This was clearly not a viable strategy. Some of the Brexit voters may have had a more nuanced view but the above situation was how most of them saw, and were sold it. (Not that the Remain campaign was that much more honest.) This is why we vote in a government to make decisions for us. It's perfectly reasonable to conclude that some decisions are more complex than the average citizen has the knowledge or time and inclination to research so they can vote intelligently.
- tremon 10y ago
  It's not just about competence though. In the same sense, people are "too stupid" to harvest their own grain, and bake their own bread: we have delegated these tasks to specialists, so that other people in society can pursue different specialisations. This works mainly because of trust: we trust that the baker does not poison us. We are a social species. Our greatest advancement as a species is the ability to create societies that are stable enough for people to specialize. We are no longer hunter/gatherers exactly because at some point, we stopped requiring that every hunter hunts for himself. We don't have to weigh up complex decisions, whether we can or not: we have delegated that task to others. Our task is to make sure that our delegates are doing their job dutifully, not make their decisions for them. That is hard enough in practice.

by maratd 10y ago

chimprich 10y ago

> The people are too stupid/bigoted/whatever to make decisions for themselves, so we'll make it for them. You make this sounds like a bad thing. Of course this is true; this is why we have governments rather than have everyone voting on every decision. Many people are too stupid, or at least misinformed, to weigh up complex decisions. We don't ask people to vote on tax levels and spending plans because they'd tend to vote in lower taxes and higher spending. This was very similar to what was promised by the Exit team: continued access to the internal market but that they would no longer have to pay for it. This was clearly not a viable strategy. Some of the Brexit voters may have had a more nuanced view but the above situation was how most of them saw, and were sold it. (Not that the Remain campaign was that much more honest.) This is why we vote in a government to make decisions for us. It's perfectly reasonable to conclude that some decisions are more complex than the average citizen has the knowledge or time and inclination to research so they can vote intelligently.

tremon 10y ago
It's not just about competence though. In the same sense, people are "too stupid" to harvest their own grain, and bake their own bread: we have delegated these tasks to specialists, so that other people in society can pursue different specialisations. This works mainly because of trust: we trust that the baker does not poison us. We are a social species. Our greatest advancement as a species is the ability to create societies that are stable enough for people to specialize. We are no longer hunter/gatherers exactly because at some point, we stopped requiring that every hunter hunts for himself. We don't have to weigh up complex decisions, whether we can or not: we have delegated that task to others. Our task is to make sure that our delegates are doing their job dutifully, not make their decisions for them. That is hard enough in practice.