4 ms·

So? An increase in citizens trained in a highly intellectually demanding field and encouraging immigration of some of the best and brightest of other nations m

So? An increase in citizens trained in a highly intellectually demanding field and encouraging immigration of some of the best and brightest of other nations makes it more than worthwhile to pursue.

throwawaysocks 10y ago
> So? So, the point of these programs isn't citizen enrichment. The point is job training. Consider: philosophy is also intellectually demanding, but I don't see "Philosophy for All" educational initiatives. I think a lot of people who oppose CS Ed investments are self-interested, but that doesn't mean there aren't genuine problems with government policies that tie themselves too closely to today's labor market. If we're not careful, "learn to code and you'll have a job" will be tomorrow's equivalent of "get a college degree and you'll have a job".
- forgottenpass 10y ago
  If we're not careful, "learn to code and you'll have a job" will be tomorrow's equivalent of "get a college degree and you'll have a job". It already is. It's not a matter of if the bottom will drop out of STEM=JOBS, but a matter of when.
kylestlb 10y ago
If this plan goes thru, maybe a university should undertake some sort of advanced accreditation process to be able to award green cards. I would hazard a guess that some universities (state unis?) aren't necessarily attracting the best and brightest. Anecdotal, but I took a few masters CS courses at an average state uni, and the foreign students had a similar academic rigor and aptitude as the general uni population for the most part, displayed through mean test and assignment scores. I could be totally wrong but it might be dangerous to assume we are attracting only the best and brightest, no? Seems like we are attracting anyone on the spectrum who can dole out some money to a university and get a stem degree.
- GrumpyYoungMan 10y ago
  Even if it were only one in a hundred foreign students that turned out to actually be exceptionally talented, taking them all is a drop in the bucket relative to overall incoming immigration, both legal and not. (Even if the ratio were one in a thousand, it would still not be all that bad; the STEM student population is not all that large.) Moreover, even if most foreign born students in a STEM program were merely as good as native students, as you suggest, that still puts them intellectually and educationally well above the average citizen, let alone the average immigrant. There is no way that it does not make sense to offer foreign STEM students green cards, so long as the university is reasonably accredited.

So? An increase in citizens trained in a highly intellectually demanding field and encouraging immigration of some of the best and brightest of other nations makes it more than worthwhile to pursue.

throwawaysocks 10y ago

> So? So, the point of these programs isn't citizen enrichment. The point is job training. Consider: philosophy is also intellectually demanding, but I don't see "Philosophy for All" educational initiatives. I think a lot of people who oppose CS Ed investments are self-interested, but that doesn't mean there aren't genuine problems with government policies that tie themselves too closely to today's labor market. If we're not careful, "learn to code and you'll have a job" will be tomorrow's equivalent of "get a college degree and you'll have a job".

forgottenpass 10y ago
If we're not careful, "learn to code and you'll have a job" will be tomorrow's equivalent of "get a college degree and you'll have a job". It already is. It's not a matter of if the bottom will drop out of STEM=JOBS, but a matter of when.

kylestlb 10y ago

If this plan goes thru, maybe a university should undertake some sort of advanced accreditation process to be able to award green cards. I would hazard a guess that some universities (state unis?) aren't necessarily attracting the best and brightest. Anecdotal, but I took a few masters CS courses at an average state uni, and the foreign students had a similar academic rigor and aptitude as the general uni population for the most part, displayed through mean test and assignment scores. I could be totally wrong but it might be dangerous to assume we are attracting only the best and brightest, no? Seems like we are attracting anyone on the spectrum who can dole out some money to a university and get a stem degree.

GrumpyYoungMan 10y ago
Even if it were only one in a hundred foreign students that turned out to actually be exceptionally talented, taking them all is a drop in the bucket relative to overall incoming immigration, both legal and not. (Even if the ratio were one in a thousand, it would still not be all that bad; the STEM student population is not all that large.) Moreover, even if most foreign born students in a STEM program were merely as good as native students, as you suggest, that still puts them intellectually and educationally well above the average citizen, let alone the average immigrant. There is no way that it does not make sense to offer foreign STEM students green cards, so long as the university is reasonably accredited.