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I know they don't want to open source it, but I wonder if they would be amenable to having a volunteer who would help organize and push the code into a version
by aeontech 10y ago
I know they don't want to open source it, but I wonder if they would be amenable to having a volunteer who would help organize and push the code into a version control system hosted on their private server.
In an interview I read, Tarn said something to the effect of that "he was not interested in learning about version control and it would just be a distraction that would take away time from the important work, since the way he works has worked for him for many years".
I can't help but think that first, it's a bit dangerous way to work, all "past, current and future" state of the project is only in his head and if he happens to become indisposed, the project is very very likely to die (though I suppose there would be hardcore fans willing to reverse engineer it)...
Second, it's a loss of historical record... imagine in fifty years historians wanting to analyze the project's history, it would be so much more useful to have a granular history instead of just a blob of files scattered across thousands of directories...
Just look at Unix History repository here for example: https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo - I think there's immense long term value in preserving this kind of archival history.
- kiba 10y agoYou aren't going to convince an idiosyncratic developer to release the source code and do all the other things that make a good developer a good developer. I see it as a double edged sword. It's good we get DF, but at the same time, DF itself is a huge mess.
- vacri 10y agoThomas Biskup of ADoM said that he'd not publicly release the ADoM code for two reasons. First, people would trawl it for the secrets (discovery is a big part of the ADoM experience). Secondly, he was embarrassed about the state of his code and didn't want to let people see... He did do a re-release recently that I funded on $kickstarter_analogue, but I haven't had a chance to play with it yet (and it's been a while...)
- krige 10y agoThere are numerous public prereleases available and I'm playing the most current one right now (the barebones ascii version). It's still the ADOM I knew, but now with extra dungeons, stuff to do and a variety of fixes for bugs and scummy exploits.
- aeontech 10y agoYeah, I understand they wouldn't be convinced to release the source, but that's why I am thinking about a middle ground, to have someone volunteer to help organize it, while still keeping the code private. Though I guess there's the question of trust... would have to be someone they knew very well.
- TillE 10y agoDwarf Fortress desperately needs multithreading and optimization for data locality. Without that it is permanently limited in scope. But it will never ever happen. Forget it. Anyone dreaming about open source DF should go make their own game. And I mean that sincerely: Dwarf Fortress is very good, but there are even greater things that will come. Build those things!
- RangerScience 10y agoThis has somewhat happened a lot. To an extent, the entire crafting genre owes itself to DF, which inspired Minecraft, and between the two of them, a genre was born... However, as yet, no-one's come close to the epicness of the generated world and story, even if they've made progress on the core gameplay.
- andrepd 10y agoI hear that claim, but do you have sources to back the fact that Minecraft was significantly influenced by DF? I mean, there was a crafting mechanic before DF, right? And not many gameplay elements from DF found their way into Minecraft at all.
- praccu 10y agohttp://www.wired.com/2013/11/minecraft-book/ http://www.wired.com/2013/11/minecraft-book/
- beardog 10y agohttp://notch.tumblr.com/post/227922045/the-origins-of-minecraft#_=_ http://notch.tumblr.com/post/227922045/the-origins-of-minecr...
- placeybordeaux 10y agoDead links galore, the way back version has the images, but not the games nor videos: https://web.archive.org/web/20091102174928/http://notch.tumblr.com/post/227922045/the-origins-of-minecraft https://web.archive.org/web/20091102174928/http://notch.tumb...
- zygomega 10y agoIt might start off with version control, but it would then end with us gulping plump helmet slurpees watching the latest cgi DF-Marvel tie in at the local megaplex. Leave the brothers be, and let future historians earn their pay.
- Joof 10y agoI'm sure he keeps regular backups. There's also his brother. If Tarn dies, his brother will probably release the code or have fans help recover it.
- db48x 10y agoActually, he's done that in the past. He let some folks from the DF forums have part of the source code, specifically the part which uses OpenGL to draw the graphics. They were able to improve it so that it was much more efficient, and so that it could use TrueType fonts. The results were quite successful, in that the graphics now take up much less of the game's time, and TrueType fonts can make the game much more approachable. On the other hand, Tarn has said that he now no longer understands this part of the code. If he ever needs to modify it he'll either have to learn how it works from scratch, or farm the work out to the community again. Since he has no desire to become a project manager, he's unlikely to do the latter. Also, the game isn't completely closed-source; it uses SDL, libpng, zlib, etc. Interestingly enough, this hasn't really stopped people from improving on DF after the fact. Just take a look at the dfhack and Text will be Text projects, for instance.
- aeontech 10y agoOn the other hand, Tarn has said that he now no longer understands this part of the code. If he ever needs to modify it he'll either have to learn how it works from scratch, or farm the work out to the community again. Reasonable, but that's when, surprise, revision history is pretty useful in figuring out what the changes are and why they were made :)
- db48x 10y agoIn theory yes, but in practice I've rarely been satisfied with the 'why' of a change unless I was able to talk to the author about it. Everyone seems to leave these things out of commit messages, because they seem so obvious at the time. Bug trackers are often better for this than version control.
- yitchelle 10y agoAgreed. I guess that he is not practicing basic software engineering. Developing code is not just updating code and then check it into version control with a helpful comment. They should be some documentation for the "what, how, who, why" answers.
- PhasmaFelis 10y ago> In an interview I read, Tarn said something to the effect of that "he was not interested in learning about version control and it would just be a distraction that would take away time from the important work, since the way he works has worked for him for many years". I want you all to imagine having to work with this person.
- squimmy 10y agoWhy? He has stated on many occasions that he has no intention of working with anyone else.
- toomanybeersies 10y agoI seem to remember at some point that Tarn said that if he ever stops working on DF for whatever reason, he would open source it.
- ywecur 10y agoWhy not open source it? He would still be in control of the vision of the project.
- MrMember 10y agoHe has stated in interviews that he doesn't want to turn into a project manager. He's said he's happy with how development on the game currently works and as long as the project brings in enough money to support him and his brother it's unlikely to change.