6 ms·

People have dreamt about on-demand car hailing for a long time, but it's always been a pipe dream - building the two-sided network is such too hard and too expe

by acchow 10y ago

People have dreamt about on-demand car hailing for a long time, but it's always been a pipe dream - building the two-sided network is such too hard and too expensive, and a small network is just not worth using as a consumer. How is this not innovation?

jsemrau 10y ago
I have been able to pick up a phone and call the cab company for decades.
- thehashrocket 10y ago
  yeah, but unless you're in a city like New York (possibly a handful of others) the wait is FOREVER. In Phoenix it was routine to have to wait half an hour or more. Same in SLC. It's awful. Uber and Lyft reduced the wait to a fraction of the time with better, quicker and cheaper service.
  - rando18423 10y ago
    I don't disagree with you, but your statement is incomplete without acknowledging these were also illegal services.
    - Moshe_Silnorin 10y ago
      Sure, but these are stupid laws.
      - rando18423 10y ago
        Wow, I forgot we set up our society so tech developers got to decide what kind of society we wanted. Laws requiring cabs to serve disadvantaged areas? Accept cash so people without credit could get around? Provide safe living spaces, up to code, for visitors from out of town? How disconnected from reality are you? Furthermore, what kind of precedent does flaunting legitimate laws set? Thankfully Austin was able to have some balls and not allow that shit to fly.
  - p4wnc6 10y ago
    This complaint makes no sense to me. You just call the taxi company further in advance of when you need the ride. If you know it's always around a 30 minute wait, just call 45 minutes ahead of time and tell them the time you need picked up. Phoenix & SLC are also not cities in which people are likely to rely on on-demand ride sharing. Most people own their own car especially if they care about being able to determine exactly when they engage in transiting. Further, in all of the non-mega / non-already-has-developed-rapid-transit-system cities I've been in, apart from one single city (San Francisco), the wait time for Uber is on the order of the wait time for a taxi. The difference between needing to call or book ahead to avoid a 30 minute wait vs. a 15 minute wait is utterly irrelevant. The real reason why Uber succeeds in these markets is that they currently subsidize the rate paid to the drivers and thus compete on price. They also have way better marketing and do a good job of making people think the market for Uber rides is more liquid than the market for taxi rides (though in truth it's not more liquid except in dense areas). Uber is not profitable in these areas, and is just hoping it can subsidize the losses on most decentralized transit regions long enough to defeat regulatory issues, outlast competitors, and put pressure on taxi services. It's still quite a significant gamble.
    - pyromine 10y ago
      I just logged in specifically to tell you that as a SLC resident without a car, I use lyft extensively. Similarly all my friends do as well, for the almost perfect example people use of preventing drunk driving. I'm already pretty strapped for cash, hence why I don't have a car but I utilize Uber & Lyft when I'm unable to get to my destination in a timely manner. I would not however get a taxi simply because I don't know the number to call, I don't know when they'll arrive at my house, and simply the entire taxi experience is just horrible.
      - salemh 10y ago
        When I used to use Taxi's in SLC (I am still a resident), I had to call two companies at a time, then wait 20 minutes for one to show up. The taxi cab drivers aren't FT like larger cities (according to a long-time dispatcher of Yellow Cab), so have (or had, this was a few years back) had preference of fares or shifts, skirting regulation. I now use Lyft (for pricing and the drivers), then Uber (if Lyft is unavailable).
  - kchoudhu 10y ago
    I've spent plenty of time waiting for my Uber as well: lots of "your car is 5 minutes away for 15 minutes". Uber isn't as brilliant as they want us to believe they are.
    - jacalata 10y ago
      "Your car is five minutes away. It is currently on a freeway driving away from you at 50 miles per hour. Now it is six minutes away".
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
d4rti 10y ago
on demand car hailing = taxis?
- jsemrau 10y ago
  For me still this equation holds true. Taxes are abundant and cheap in Singapore. Riding in someone's car makes me uncomfortable. (But that is just me, I suppose)
  - pbarnes_1 10y ago
    The success of Uber in a city is directly proportional to how much taxis suck in that city. So Singapore is one of a few cities where that's the case (NYC also -- Uber doesn't really work there. I was there for 8 days and requesting an Uber as a 10-15 minute wait. You can get into one of a million cabs that go by in that time. I gave up).
    - jsemrau 10y ago
      Agreed, when I was living in the Valley in 2003/4 public transportation was terrible and taxis nowhere to be found. But then I was driving a shitty Ford ....
    - robryan 10y ago
      Same with Hong Kong, Uber have started up there but I think they will struggle.
    - cstejerean 10y ago
      Except when it's 4 pm and you want to go to the airport from Manhattan, at which point none of the million cabs are interested in picking you up.
      - 1986 10y ago
        Or in the other four boroughs of NYC, or Manhattan above ~125th St. edit: which is exactly why the city rolled out the green cab system, which has inverted limitations on where they can accept street hails
amalcon 10y ago
Most of the innovation there was in the cell phone[1]. You've been able to order a car by phone in major metros for longer than those have been around. In fact, Uber started off as an app for using those very services. Props to Uber for execution, but all the pieces were there. [1]-edit: some in the smartphone, but most in the old "makes calls" cell phones
- phil21 10y ago
  The older I get the more I realize execution is simply all that matters. A zillion people had the same basic idea for Uber. They made it a reality, and made it Not Suck(tm). The user experience prior to Uber for ordering a car via phone was absolutely horrific.
  - discardorama 10y ago
    I've heard it said many times: ideas are a dime-a-dozen, execution is everything.
  - nostrademons 10y ago
    Execution and timing. Uber had a big advantage in being new & shiny just as the market was ready for it. They tried it multiple times and the first few it failed to gain any traction.
- DINKDINK 10y ago
  >Props to Uber for execution, but all the pieces were there. Much innovation looks very easy from an ex-post perspective. Putting wheels on a suitcase etc.
  - endgame 10y ago
    I hate wheeled suitcases. If I have to drag it I've packed too much.
- chetanahuja 10y ago
  Ummm... as a matter of fact, Uber was only a black car service until Lyft (and perhaps others) started P2P service. Uber was a fast follower in that space.
pigeons 10y ago
> People have dreamt about on-demand car hailing for a long time Taxis.

by acchow 10y ago

jsemrau 10y ago

I have been able to pick up a phone and call the cab company for decades.

thehashrocket 10y ago
yeah, but unless you're in a city like New York (possibly a handful of others) the wait is FOREVER. In Phoenix it was routine to have to wait half an hour or more. Same in SLC. It's awful. Uber and Lyft reduced the wait to a fraction of the time with better, quicker and cheaper service.
- rando18423 10y ago
  I don't disagree with you, but your statement is incomplete without acknowledging these were also illegal services.
  - Moshe_Silnorin 10y ago
    Sure, but these are stupid laws.
    - rando18423 10y ago
      Wow, I forgot we set up our society so tech developers got to decide what kind of society we wanted. Laws requiring cabs to serve disadvantaged areas? Accept cash so people without credit could get around? Provide safe living spaces, up to code, for visitors from out of town? How disconnected from reality are you? Furthermore, what kind of precedent does flaunting legitimate laws set? Thankfully Austin was able to have some balls and not allow that shit to fly.
- p4wnc6 10y ago
  This complaint makes no sense to me. You just call the taxi company further in advance of when you need the ride. If you know it's always around a 30 minute wait, just call 45 minutes ahead of time and tell them the time you need picked up. Phoenix & SLC are also not cities in which people are likely to rely on on-demand ride sharing. Most people own their own car especially if they care about being able to determine exactly when they engage in transiting. Further, in all of the non-mega / non-already-has-developed-rapid-transit-system cities I've been in, apart from one single city (San Francisco), the wait time for Uber is on the order of the wait time for a taxi. The difference between needing to call or book ahead to avoid a 30 minute wait vs. a 15 minute wait is utterly irrelevant. The real reason why Uber succeeds in these markets is that they currently subsidize the rate paid to the drivers and thus compete on price. They also have way better marketing and do a good job of making people think the market for Uber rides is more liquid than the market for taxi rides (though in truth it's not more liquid except in dense areas). Uber is not profitable in these areas, and is just hoping it can subsidize the losses on most decentralized transit regions long enough to defeat regulatory issues, outlast competitors, and put pressure on taxi services. It's still quite a significant gamble.
  - pyromine 10y ago
    I just logged in specifically to tell you that as a SLC resident without a car, I use lyft extensively. Similarly all my friends do as well, for the almost perfect example people use of preventing drunk driving. I'm already pretty strapped for cash, hence why I don't have a car but I utilize Uber & Lyft when I'm unable to get to my destination in a timely manner. I would not however get a taxi simply because I don't know the number to call, I don't know when they'll arrive at my house, and simply the entire taxi experience is just horrible.
    - salemh 10y ago
      When I used to use Taxi's in SLC (I am still a resident), I had to call two companies at a time, then wait 20 minutes for one to show up. The taxi cab drivers aren't FT like larger cities (according to a long-time dispatcher of Yellow Cab), so have (or had, this was a few years back) had preference of fares or shifts, skirting regulation. I now use Lyft (for pricing and the drivers), then Uber (if Lyft is unavailable).
- kchoudhu 10y ago
  I've spent plenty of time waiting for my Uber as well: lots of "your car is 5 minutes away for 15 minutes". Uber isn't as brilliant as they want us to believe they are.
  - jacalata 10y ago
    "Your car is five minutes away. It is currently on a freeway driving away from you at 50 miles per hour. Now it is six minutes away".
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

d4rti 10y ago

on demand car hailing = taxis?

jsemrau 10y ago
For me still this equation holds true. Taxes are abundant and cheap in Singapore. Riding in someone's car makes me uncomfortable. (But that is just me, I suppose)
- pbarnes_1 10y ago
  The success of Uber in a city is directly proportional to how much taxis suck in that city. So Singapore is one of a few cities where that's the case (NYC also -- Uber doesn't really work there. I was there for 8 days and requesting an Uber as a 10-15 minute wait. You can get into one of a million cabs that go by in that time. I gave up).
  - jsemrau 10y ago
    Agreed, when I was living in the Valley in 2003/4 public transportation was terrible and taxis nowhere to be found. But then I was driving a shitty Ford ....
  - robryan 10y ago
    Same with Hong Kong, Uber have started up there but I think they will struggle.
  - cstejerean 10y ago
    Except when it's 4 pm and you want to go to the airport from Manhattan, at which point none of the million cabs are interested in picking you up.
    - 1986 10y ago
      Or in the other four boroughs of NYC, or Manhattan above ~125th St. edit: which is exactly why the city rolled out the green cab system, which has inverted limitations on where they can accept street hails

amalcon 10y ago

Most of the innovation there was in the cell phone[1]. You've been able to order a car by phone in major metros for longer than those have been around. In fact, Uber started off as an app for using those very services. Props to Uber for execution, but all the pieces were there. [1]-edit: some in the smartphone, but most in the old "makes calls" cell phones

phil21 10y ago
The older I get the more I realize execution is simply all that matters. A zillion people had the same basic idea for Uber. They made it a reality, and made it Not Suck(tm). The user experience prior to Uber for ordering a car via phone was absolutely horrific.
- discardorama 10y ago
  I've heard it said many times: ideas are a dime-a-dozen, execution is everything.
- nostrademons 10y ago
  Execution and timing. Uber had a big advantage in being new & shiny just as the market was ready for it. They tried it multiple times and the first few it failed to gain any traction.
DINKDINK 10y ago
>Props to Uber for execution, but all the pieces were there. Much innovation looks very easy from an ex-post perspective. Putting wheels on a suitcase etc.
- endgame 10y ago
  I hate wheeled suitcases. If I have to drag it I've packed too much.
chetanahuja 10y ago
Ummm... as a matter of fact, Uber was only a black car service until Lyft (and perhaps others) started P2P service. Uber was a fast follower in that space.

pigeons 10y ago

> People have dreamt about on-demand car hailing for a long time Taxis.