5 ms·

Can we have a do-over on the web? I've seen (and even nominally participated) in something of a resurgence of Gopher as something of a shadow web for nostalgia-

Can we have a do-over on the web? I've seen (and even nominally participated) in something of a resurgence of Gopher as something of a shadow web for nostalgia-addled geeks. Gopher isn't an awesome protocol, but I love anything that recaptures the spirit and decentralized nature of the old web. At my curmudgeon-iest I like to imagine we carve off our own web where S-expressions reign, there is no Google, and a million timecubes bloom.

gagege 10y ago
Really, all you need to do is make your own browser and then popularize it.
- Kinnard 10y ago
  1 step ahead of you . . . but this staircase seems really long . . .
pcwalton 10y ago
And such a web would be far slower. Restyling is usually the slowest part of the rendering pipeline in an optimized implementation. Throwing arbitrary tree transformations made with a Scheme interpreter into the mix would be totally irresponsible without looking at what the consequences would be for performance.
- jguegant 10y ago
  Isn't it the way Qt + QML works? Last time I checked, this stack wasn't particularly slow. I would also express the same style in much less lines of code than HTML + CSS.
TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
That may yet happen. Although CSS sucks more than a very sucky thing, and the text+markup idea barely makes sense in 2016, I can see how we got here - and how CSS needed to hit the classic "worse is better" sweet spot that allowed designers to play, and not just people who code. But that was then. If someone invents a meta-protocol now and implements a meta-browser/meta-server for it, I'd expect cult/niche status at least.
girvo 10y ago
When I was 6 years old, in 1996, my parents gave me a book about "Cyberspace" to go along with our dial-up internet connection (on our Pentium 100mhz Windows 95 computer!). This book showed me Gopher, and MUDs, and changed my life! I wish I could remember the name of it, it was a bright yellow cover with a superhero on it, I think. I miss Gopher, in a rose-tinted glasses nostalgia-driven way
- wolfgke 10y ago
  > I wish I could remember the name of it, it was a bright yellow cover with a superhero on it, I think. Could it be Computer Lib/Dream Machines by Ted Nelson: Cover of the 1974 edition: http://blogs.brandeis.edu/sarahw/files/2011/03/cover1.jpg http://blogs.brandeis.edu/sarahw/files/2011/03/cover1.jpg Front cover of the 1987 edition (in yellow): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Computer-Lib-Dream-Machines-Tempus/dp/0914845497 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Computer-Lib-Dream-Machines-Tempus/... (sorry, I have no image of the back cover, but I have both editions in my book shelf: Also the 1987 edition shows a superhero on its back cover (cover of Dream Machines)). EDIT: If you want to order a reprint of the 1st edition (very difficult to get): Ted Nelson sells them again: http://hyperland.com/LibPage http://hyperland.com/LibPage
- dTal 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure I had the same book! The "superhero" was called "CyberSarge", yes? https://www.amazon.com/Internet-Kids-Ted-Pedersen/dp/0600590186/175-9303664-6802514?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0 https://www.amazon.com/Internet-Kids-Ted-Pedersen/dp/0600590...
  - girvo 10y ago
    YES!!!! That's the one! Holy crap, well done, I never thought I'd see it again! Oh man what a nostalgia trip: "GEEK: A geek is someone who is really excited by computers and proud of it" -- this is the reason I was proud to call myself a geek from 6yo onwards :)

gagege 10y ago

Really, all you need to do is make your own browser and then popularize it.

Kinnard 10y ago
1 step ahead of you . . . but this staircase seems really long . . .

pcwalton 10y ago

And such a web would be far slower. Restyling is usually the slowest part of the rendering pipeline in an optimized implementation. Throwing arbitrary tree transformations made with a Scheme interpreter into the mix would be totally irresponsible without looking at what the consequences would be for performance.

jguegant 10y ago
Isn't it the way Qt + QML works? Last time I checked, this stack wasn't particularly slow. I would also express the same style in much less lines of code than HTML + CSS.

TheOtherHobbes 10y ago

That may yet happen. Although CSS sucks more than a very sucky thing, and the text+markup idea barely makes sense in 2016, I can see how we got here - and how CSS needed to hit the classic "worse is better" sweet spot that allowed designers to play, and not just people who code. But that was then. If someone invents a meta-protocol now and implements a meta-browser/meta-server for it, I'd expect cult/niche status at least.

girvo 10y ago

When I was 6 years old, in 1996, my parents gave me a book about "Cyberspace" to go along with our dial-up internet connection (on our Pentium 100mhz Windows 95 computer!). This book showed me Gopher, and MUDs, and changed my life! I wish I could remember the name of it, it was a bright yellow cover with a superhero on it, I think. I miss Gopher, in a rose-tinted glasses nostalgia-driven way

wolfgke 10y ago
> I wish I could remember the name of it, it was a bright yellow cover with a superhero on it, I think. Could it be Computer Lib/Dream Machines by Ted Nelson: Cover of the 1974 edition: http://blogs.brandeis.edu/sarahw/files/2011/03/cover1.jpg http://blogs.brandeis.edu/sarahw/files/2011/03/cover1.jpg Front cover of the 1987 edition (in yellow): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Computer-Lib-Dream-Machines-Tempus/dp/0914845497 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Computer-Lib-Dream-Machines-Tempus/... (sorry, I have no image of the back cover, but I have both editions in my book shelf: Also the 1987 edition shows a superhero on its back cover (cover of Dream Machines)). EDIT: If you want to order a reprint of the 1st edition (very difficult to get): Ted Nelson sells them again: http://hyperland.com/LibPage http://hyperland.com/LibPage
dTal 10y ago
I'm pretty sure I had the same book! The "superhero" was called "CyberSarge", yes? https://www.amazon.com/Internet-Kids-Ted-Pedersen/dp/0600590186/175-9303664-6802514?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0 https://www.amazon.com/Internet-Kids-Ted-Pedersen/dp/0600590...
- girvo 10y ago
  YES!!!! That's the one! Holy crap, well done, I never thought I'd see it again! Oh man what a nostalgia trip: "GEEK: A geek is someone who is really excited by computers and proud of it" -- this is the reason I was proud to call myself a geek from 6yo onwards :)