5 ms·

As a former visual/graphic designer, now a stay-at-home father, I have to chime in on this. I've done branding and identity work for some very large companies (

by lotides 17y ago

As a former visual/graphic designer, now a stay-at-home father, I have to chime in on this. I've done branding and identity work for some very large companies (e.g. The Coca-Cola Company) so I can tell you that the logo is a very important part of any business strategy. First, I'm surprised how little respect design gets in the tech industry and from programmers. Good design can sell a poor product or inform consumers about a superior product. It can drastically reduce support costs (UI design) or encourage consumers to pay a little more for a product (i.e. The Apple "Tax"). Design is important to the overall success of most business ventures and should be budgeted for and planned for accordingly. These logo (I'll be nice here) marketplaces are better than design-it-yourself or no design at all in most cases. But you get what you pay for. Many of the designs will come from students that have little to no experience and an incomplete grasp of the principles of design. Most of the rest will come from international locales far away with different cultural identities and little understanding of yours. After all, a logo is not just something attractive, it communicates a message visually. What you will get in abundance is poorly thought-out concepts, logos stolen or similar to others and rushed work with a total disregard to overall quality. Does your logo need to be legible from far away or at small sizes? They probably didn't account for that. Some of these logos will land you in court (trademark/copyright violations) and I guarantee the guy that "designed" it for you on these website will disappear. Bottom line: These logos are great for a placeholder until you can afford a designer, until your product grows or launches or for presentations to investors, etc.

tptacek 17y ago
Coca Cola overspends and has custom everything. There are industry verticals that absolutely require couture design, including print, large-scale retail, and mass market food products. But most companies aren't in those verticals. A 200 person asset management firm doesn't need couture design. They need competant bespoke tailoring. Same goes for a chain of dental offices, a regional law firm, an HVAC company, and most enterprise software companies. Most businesses shouldn't be spending the kind of money Coke spends on a one-off project. Not for their entire company. Your concerns about stolen logos are valid (like I said earlier, saw that happen). But those same concerns exist at the lower end of the custom "consultatative" design market as well. And the fact is, most of the logos on the 99designs logo market aren't stolen. They're just derivative and boring. Which is fine.
- lotides 17y ago
  Is 99designs yours? Do you own or work for a similar company? You seem to be defending these practices beyond that of a disinterested observer. Yes, Coca-Cola spends a lot of money. I've seen plenty of projects where they've wasted it. That's not the point and this isn't about that particular company. I'm not sure where this "couture" stuff comes from, nobody speaks that way outside the fashion industry. Those of us in the design industry make a point to design a logo that is appropriate to the client. Which brings me to another point: communication. It doesn't exist in any realistic form in 99designs or any of their competition. A one-on-one relationship with a designer can steer the client away from trends and copy-cat design and towards something long-lasting, professional, appropriate and even affordable (how many of your can afford full 4-color offset for everything you produce including large-scale signage?). Professional design has little to do with being snotty or "couture." You wouldn't build your building without an architect and you shouldn't build your brand without a designer. A 1-person company (I've owned a few) can benefit greatly from a designer consulting on the identity. When you think of design: think function. Don't focus on the form. Yes, a tremendous part of our education and experience is in creating something beautiful, efficient and visually engaging. But just as much is put in to something function correctly. I've saved clients thousands of dollars by designing materials to be more efficient. If cost is a concern, go directly to the designer. Here's a little secret: creative directors don't really do shit. Designers come up with the ideas, create the iterations and execute them. Many design agencies pay their designers around $30/hour with few benefits while they charge $200+/hour. Find a designer you like (portfolios and references) and see if they can fit your budget. Finally: If you can't afford a few hundred for a logo then you don't really have a business do you? It takes money to make money. If that kind of investment in your business isn't possible then you're either not serious or you're not going to make it anyway.
  - xsmasher 17y ago
    Can we agree that it's possible for a start-up to buy more office space than it needs, and that would be a waste of money? Is it also possible to buy more logo than you need? Wouldn't that be a waste of money too? Larger companies can (and should) shell out for design, but a smaller company should be spending a much smaller amount. They don't need a 150 page branding and style guide, they just need a logo for the top of the newsletter so they can present an image that's proportional to the size of their business.
ique 17y ago
All you're arguments are absolutely valid and true, but I don't think anyone isn't aware of them. Everyone knows design sells products, it's not about that. I've done a bunch of designwork, including logos, for very small-scale projects like day-care centers, local sports organizations and so forth, and I can tell you they would be soo much better off just buying something they like from this place. The marketplace isn't intended for Apple or Coca-Cola and any company understands the differences. No day-care center, no matter how stupid you think they are, pretend like they're getting the same for 99 bucks as they are with a professional design-firm. They don't want a professional design, they want something to stick on their letterhead for the annual newsletter. These kinds of sites aren't competition to real designers, they offload crap-designers like me who would rather code.
hkuo 17y ago
Do you see a trend of logos becoming less important to a company's success in the past decade, as focus turns online and brand becomes more of a conversation? Consider the logos of Google, Facebook, eBay. Look at that completely generic Y up in the left corner. Is the TechCrunch logo lighting your world on fire? Ustream's? YouTube? I dare you to tell me that YouTube logo is a shining example of design success. They can hardly even make a favicon of it. I'm not saying that a logo has no importance, but as the lipstick and makeup of brands becomes more transparent and users are intent on knowing companies on a deeper level, I do see the traditional sense of brand styleguides diminishing, and while sites like CraigsList and reddit and TripAdvisor and OpenTable are finding phenomenal success despite amateur logos, I begin to question their importance more and more.
- lsc 17y ago
  Eh, actually, I think that most of the logos you cite are fairly unique, and even their amateurish style added something. I would argue that a memorable, unique and ugly logo is worth quite a bit more than a perfect, beautiful and forgettably generic logo. I had this discussion with chris a while back... he came up with a rather nice web 2.0 pastel logo for prgmr.com. I stuck with figlet. His argument was that a generic logo made people more comfortable, while I thought that the 'rounded corners' made me look like a knockoff. I'm pretty invested in my brand; like me or hate me, I want you to remember me.
webwright 17y ago
I'm a designer (sorta) and have done a mess of small biz design consulting in my day, and I will tell you that you decidedly do NOT get what you pay for. I've seen $50k logos that were pretty ineffective. We've all seen HUGE branding campaigns fall face first. We've also seen cheap/free logos turn into icons (Google, Yahoo, Nike). The difference in VALUE between a $99 logo here (or designed by a student designer abroad) and a $30,000 logo designed by a seasoned pro is NOT $29,000 for 99.9% of companies. Interestingly enough-- this is true for a lot of coding tasks, too. Most web apps are simple CRUD apps that will never need to scale and don't really merit "rockstar" talent. I don't think you need to sell anyone here on the value of good UX design and "good enough" graphic design. But GREAT graphic design clearly isn't a major factor in winning on the web. Don't believe me? Judged entirely on composition alone (i.e. ignoring their fame and success) how many of these sites would you be proud to have in your graphic design portfolio? http://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/US http://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/US
- tptacek 17y ago
  Feature we need: ability to transfer karma from our own unjustly high-ranked comments to new, better comments.
- access_denied 17y ago
  4

by lotides 17y ago

tptacek 17y ago

Coca Cola overspends and has custom everything. There are industry verticals that absolutely require couture design, including print, large-scale retail, and mass market food products. But most companies aren't in those verticals. A 200 person asset management firm doesn't need couture design. They need competant bespoke tailoring. Same goes for a chain of dental offices, a regional law firm, an HVAC company, and most enterprise software companies. Most businesses shouldn't be spending the kind of money Coke spends on a one-off project. Not for their entire company. Your concerns about stolen logos are valid (like I said earlier, saw that happen). But those same concerns exist at the lower end of the custom "consultatative" design market as well. And the fact is, most of the logos on the 99designs logo market aren't stolen. They're just derivative and boring. Which is fine.

lotides 17y ago
Is 99designs yours? Do you own or work for a similar company? You seem to be defending these practices beyond that of a disinterested observer. Yes, Coca-Cola spends a lot of money. I've seen plenty of projects where they've wasted it. That's not the point and this isn't about that particular company. I'm not sure where this "couture" stuff comes from, nobody speaks that way outside the fashion industry. Those of us in the design industry make a point to design a logo that is appropriate to the client. Which brings me to another point: communication. It doesn't exist in any realistic form in 99designs or any of their competition. A one-on-one relationship with a designer can steer the client away from trends and copy-cat design and towards something long-lasting, professional, appropriate and even affordable (how many of your can afford full 4-color offset for everything you produce including large-scale signage?). Professional design has little to do with being snotty or "couture." You wouldn't build your building without an architect and you shouldn't build your brand without a designer. A 1-person company (I've owned a few) can benefit greatly from a designer consulting on the identity. When you think of design: think function. Don't focus on the form. Yes, a tremendous part of our education and experience is in creating something beautiful, efficient and visually engaging. But just as much is put in to something function correctly. I've saved clients thousands of dollars by designing materials to be more efficient. If cost is a concern, go directly to the designer. Here's a little secret: creative directors don't really do shit. Designers come up with the ideas, create the iterations and execute them. Many design agencies pay their designers around $30/hour with few benefits while they charge $200+/hour. Find a designer you like (portfolios and references) and see if they can fit your budget. Finally: If you can't afford a few hundred for a logo then you don't really have a business do you? It takes money to make money. If that kind of investment in your business isn't possible then you're either not serious or you're not going to make it anyway.
- xsmasher 17y ago
  Can we agree that it's possible for a start-up to buy more office space than it needs, and that would be a waste of money? Is it also possible to buy more logo than you need? Wouldn't that be a waste of money too? Larger companies can (and should) shell out for design, but a smaller company should be spending a much smaller amount. They don't need a 150 page branding and style guide, they just need a logo for the top of the newsletter so they can present an image that's proportional to the size of their business.

ique 17y ago

All you're arguments are absolutely valid and true, but I don't think anyone isn't aware of them. Everyone knows design sells products, it's not about that. I've done a bunch of designwork, including logos, for very small-scale projects like day-care centers, local sports organizations and so forth, and I can tell you they would be soo much better off just buying something they like from this place. The marketplace isn't intended for Apple or Coca-Cola and any company understands the differences. No day-care center, no matter how stupid you think they are, pretend like they're getting the same for 99 bucks as they are with a professional design-firm. They don't want a professional design, they want something to stick on their letterhead for the annual newsletter. These kinds of sites aren't competition to real designers, they offload crap-designers like me who would rather code.

hkuo 17y ago

Do you see a trend of logos becoming less important to a company's success in the past decade, as focus turns online and brand becomes more of a conversation? Consider the logos of Google, Facebook, eBay. Look at that completely generic Y up in the left corner. Is the TechCrunch logo lighting your world on fire? Ustream's? YouTube? I dare you to tell me that YouTube logo is a shining example of design success. They can hardly even make a favicon of it. I'm not saying that a logo has no importance, but as the lipstick and makeup of brands becomes more transparent and users are intent on knowing companies on a deeper level, I do see the traditional sense of brand styleguides diminishing, and while sites like CraigsList and reddit and TripAdvisor and OpenTable are finding phenomenal success despite amateur logos, I begin to question their importance more and more.

lsc 17y ago
Eh, actually, I think that most of the logos you cite are fairly unique, and even their amateurish style added something. I would argue that a memorable, unique and ugly logo is worth quite a bit more than a perfect, beautiful and forgettably generic logo. I had this discussion with chris a while back... he came up with a rather nice web 2.0 pastel logo for prgmr.com. I stuck with figlet. His argument was that a generic logo made people more comfortable, while I thought that the 'rounded corners' made me look like a knockoff. I'm pretty invested in my brand; like me or hate me, I want you to remember me.

webwright 17y ago

I'm a designer (sorta) and have done a mess of small biz design consulting in my day, and I will tell you that you decidedly do NOT get what you pay for. I've seen $50k logos that were pretty ineffective. We've all seen HUGE branding campaigns fall face first. We've also seen cheap/free logos turn into icons (Google, Yahoo, Nike). The difference in VALUE between a $99 logo here (or designed by a student designer abroad) and a $30,000 logo designed by a seasoned pro is NOT $29,000 for 99.9% of companies. Interestingly enough-- this is true for a lot of coding tasks, too. Most web apps are simple CRUD apps that will never need to scale and don't really merit "rockstar" talent. I don't think you need to sell anyone here on the value of good UX design and "good enough" graphic design. But GREAT graphic design clearly isn't a major factor in winning on the web. Don't believe me? Judged entirely on composition alone (i.e. ignoring their fame and success) how many of these sites would you be proud to have in your graphic design portfolio? http://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/US http://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/US

tptacek 17y ago
Feature we need: ability to transfer karma from our own unjustly high-ranked comments to new, better comments.
access_denied 17y ago
4