4 ms·

This pretty much - huge taxes, low pay, low quality work where skill hardly even matters and on top of that every programmer speaks English, German not so much.

This pretty much - huge taxes, low pay, low quality work where skill hardly even matters and on top of that every programmer speaks English, German not so much. Zero reasons to chose Germany as a programmer looking for a place to live in EU.

uola 10y ago
Every place has flaws, what counts is where it places on a list. What other place (except ones current one) would you suggest being better?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- rubber_duck 10y ago
  I think Dublin should be your go-to right now - English speaking, tech giants are there.
  - tukum 10y ago
    And it has expensive housing too :) [1] [1] https://www.daft.ie/report/ronan-lyons-2016q1-rental https://www.daft.ie/report/ronan-lyons-2016q1-rental
    - rubber_duck 10y ago
      It comes with the territory unfortunately, still offset by the pros IMO.
demonshalo 10y ago
That's another thing that I forgot to mention. Germans do not speak English. Or at least, they choose not to due to national pride. The place really felt unwelcoming. It is god damn impossible to find a banker that speaks English... I had to book an appointment for a translator while opening a bank account because their regular staff could not answer the most basic questions in English. That is insane!
- darklajid 10y ago
  Wait. What? Every single source I've talked to always said some variation of this: "You cannot speak German (as a foreigner) in Germany, because everyone loves to answer/reply in English for various reasons (considering that polite/more interesting/easier than trying to autocorrect the German)". Older people (50+ maybe?) might be worse here, but in general I'd say that everyone speaks English. I especially challenge your 'Speaking German due to national pride', because that's really, really wrong (even HN had an - English of course - article about the special and challenging issue of national pride in Germany). Sorry that you had a bad time, I'm not challenging your experiences. But your generalizations based on that are wonky as hell.. (Disclaimer: I'm German)
  - demonshalo 10y ago
    > But your generalizations based on that are wonky as hell.. Apologies if my experience does not reflect the reality of the situation but That's all I have to go by as that is what I experienced. The "national pride" thing is something you might be able to challenge as you yourself do not feel it or see it. But I could see it as clear as the sun. It might not be as apparent as when Americans yell out loud "USA USA USA", but it is definitely there! I am not exaggerating at all when I say that I spent 6 months in Germany and the only people I met who could speak English well are the foreigners. In fact, I could not even get a single contract (bank acct, phone, housing, insurance, etc) to be translated into English without using a lawyer or a cousin. Even my employment contract was written in German. Heck once a week I still get emails like this because when I contact the customer support for these companies they cannot speak English to terminate my contract... :D Ihr Kundencenter Hallo , das Kundencenter bietet Ihnen schnellen Zugang zu wichtigen Informationen rund um Ihren Vertrag. Dort können Sie z.B. Ihre Rechnung abrufen, persönliche Daten verwalten oder gewünschte Extras zu Ihrem Produkt hinzubestellen. In dieser E-Mail erhalten Sie Ihren * Benutzernamen und einen Link, über den Sie sich Ihr * Passwort selbst vergeben können. Zu Ihrer Sicherheit ist dieser Link nur 24 Stunden ab Versand dieser E-Mail gültig. Bitte vergeben Sie in dieser Zeit ein persönliches Passwort. Klicken Sie auf diesen Link: * oder kopieren Sie ihn in das Adressfeld Ihres Browsers. Sollten bereits mehr als 24 Stunden vergangen sein, klicken Sie trotzdem auf den oben angegebenen Link. Sie erhalten dann die Möglichkeit, sich einen neuen Link zusenden zu lassen. Auch dieser Link wäre wieder 24 Stunden gültig. Übrigens: Sie können sich mit Ihrem * Benutzernamen oder mit Ihrer Kundennummer und dem von Ihnen gewählten * Passwort im Kundencenter einloggen. Es grüßt Sie

uola 10y ago

Every place has flaws, what counts is where it places on a list. What other place (except ones current one) would you suggest being better?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
rubber_duck 10y ago
I think Dublin should be your go-to right now - English speaking, tech giants are there.
- tukum 10y ago
  And it has expensive housing too :) [1] [1] https://www.daft.ie/report/ronan-lyons-2016q1-rental https://www.daft.ie/report/ronan-lyons-2016q1-rental
  - rubber_duck 10y ago
    It comes with the territory unfortunately, still offset by the pros IMO.

demonshalo 10y ago

That's another thing that I forgot to mention. Germans do not speak English. Or at least, they choose not to due to national pride. The place really felt unwelcoming. It is god damn impossible to find a banker that speaks English... I had to book an appointment for a translator while opening a bank account because their regular staff could not answer the most basic questions in English. That is insane!

darklajid 10y ago
Wait. What? Every single source I've talked to always said some variation of this: "You cannot speak German (as a foreigner) in Germany, because everyone loves to answer/reply in English for various reasons (considering that polite/more interesting/easier than trying to autocorrect the German)". Older people (50+ maybe?) might be worse here, but in general I'd say that everyone speaks English. I especially challenge your 'Speaking German due to national pride', because that's really, really wrong (even HN had an - English of course - article about the special and challenging issue of national pride in Germany). Sorry that you had a bad time, I'm not challenging your experiences. But your generalizations based on that are wonky as hell.. (Disclaimer: I'm German)
- demonshalo 10y ago
  > But your generalizations based on that are wonky as hell.. Apologies if my experience does not reflect the reality of the situation but That's all I have to go by as that is what I experienced. The "national pride" thing is something you might be able to challenge as you yourself do not feel it or see it. But I could see it as clear as the sun. It might not be as apparent as when Americans yell out loud "USA USA USA", but it is definitely there! I am not exaggerating at all when I say that I spent 6 months in Germany and the only people I met who could speak English well are the foreigners. In fact, I could not even get a single contract (bank acct, phone, housing, insurance, etc) to be translated into English without using a lawyer or a cousin. Even my employment contract was written in German. Heck once a week I still get emails like this because when I contact the customer support for these companies they cannot speak English to terminate my contract... :D Ihr Kundencenter Hallo , das Kundencenter bietet Ihnen schnellen Zugang zu wichtigen Informationen rund um Ihren Vertrag. Dort können Sie z.B. Ihre Rechnung abrufen, persönliche Daten verwalten oder gewünschte Extras zu Ihrem Produkt hinzubestellen. In dieser E-Mail erhalten Sie Ihren * Benutzernamen und einen Link, über den Sie sich Ihr * Passwort selbst vergeben können. Zu Ihrer Sicherheit ist dieser Link nur 24 Stunden ab Versand dieser E-Mail gültig. Bitte vergeben Sie in dieser Zeit ein persönliches Passwort. Klicken Sie auf diesen Link: * oder kopieren Sie ihn in das Adressfeld Ihres Browsers. Sollten bereits mehr als 24 Stunden vergangen sein, klicken Sie trotzdem auf den oben angegebenen Link. Sie erhalten dann die Möglichkeit, sich einen neuen Link zusenden zu lassen. Auch dieser Link wäre wieder 24 Stunden gültig. Übrigens: Sie können sich mit Ihrem * Benutzernamen oder mit Ihrer Kundennummer und dem von Ihnen gewählten * Passwort im Kundencenter einloggen. Es grüßt Sie