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That mandate of the EU is, and always was, to prevent WW3. That is its raison d'être, and all decisions branch out from not wanting to repeat past mistakes, and

by abpavel 10y ago

That mandate of the EU is, and always was, to prevent WW3. That is its raison d'être, and all decisions branch out from not wanting to repeat past mistakes, and end up like Serbia/Croatia in 1996. You can point out Swiss all you want, but Switzerland is as special is the City of London (not London city).

ZenoArrow 10y ago
> "That mandate of the EU is, and always was, to prevent WW3." Sort of. Many see that start of the EU was the ECSC (European Coal and Steel Community). Robert Schuman proposed it in 1950 to "make war not only unthinkable but materially impossible". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Community https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Commun... However, the ideas behind the EU started before the ECSC. Jean Monnet is regarded by many to be the 'father' of the EU. Here's a quote from a speech he gave in 1943... https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean_Monnet https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean_Monnet "There will be no peace in Europe if the States rebuild themselves on the basis of national sovereignty, with its implications of prestige politics and economic protection…. The countries of Europe are not strong enough individually to be able to guarantee prosperity and social development for their peoples. The States of Europe must therefore form a federation or a European entity that would make them into a common economic unit." Furthermore, there have been other groups that have promoted peace in the region, namely NATO and OSCE. The agreement that led to NATO was signed in 1949, and OSCE was started in 1975, well ahead of the formation of the political union of the EU (the ECSC and EEC were mostly trade deals). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_Security_and_Co-operation_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_Security_and_... It's also worth noting that there was a failed attempt to build a pan-European military in 1952, and that Jean-Claude Junckher has indicated the EU may want its own army in the future: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Defence_Community https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Defence_Community https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-army-european-commission-miltary https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-ju...
- kristofferR 10y ago
  Winston Churchill also voiced support for an "United States of Europe" in 1946, right after WW2: https://archive.is/kOGDK https://archive.is/kOGDK
dingaling 10y ago
> That mandate of the EU is, and always was, to prevent WW3. That's an interesting generational difference-of-view. Growing up in the Cold War, to us it was NATO that kept the peace both within the western hemisphere and within Europe. Barring a couple of tantrums it even kept Turkey and Greece from going to war! Best of all it didn't require much sacrifice of sovereignity other than perhaps bases for US forces and land for the pan-European fuel pipelines, plus keeping defence spending above the agreed thresholds. The EEC was barely mentioned in terms of international relations and we only studied it in school in the context of trade and agricultural policy. But those who grew-up in the post-Maastricht Treaty period seem to have a wholly different view of what the EU is and wants to be, and a very much poorer view of NATO. And I think that is reflected by the results of the UK referendum; to many of the Cold War generation the EU is an usurper, a bloated amorphous creature of indistinct purpose that evolved without their consent and seems to insert its tentacles into every aspect of their lives. Why does it exist, why is it needed and why can't it just focus on intra-European trade like it used to? Until those questions are answered there will always be people sceptical of the EU.

by abpavel 10y ago

ZenoArrow 10y ago

> "That mandate of the EU is, and always was, to prevent WW3." Sort of. Many see that start of the EU was the ECSC (European Coal and Steel Community). Robert Schuman proposed it in 1950 to "make war not only unthinkable but materially impossible". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Community https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Commun... However, the ideas behind the EU started before the ECSC. Jean Monnet is regarded by many to be the 'father' of the EU. Here's a quote from a speech he gave in 1943... https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean_Monnet https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean_Monnet "There will be no peace in Europe if the States rebuild themselves on the basis of national sovereignty, with its implications of prestige politics and economic protection…. The countries of Europe are not strong enough individually to be able to guarantee prosperity and social development for their peoples. The States of Europe must therefore form a federation or a European entity that would make them into a common economic unit." Furthermore, there have been other groups that have promoted peace in the region, namely NATO and OSCE. The agreement that led to NATO was signed in 1949, and OSCE was started in 1975, well ahead of the formation of the political union of the EU (the ECSC and EEC were mostly trade deals). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_Security_and_Co-operation_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_Security_and_... It's also worth noting that there was a failed attempt to build a pan-European military in 1952, and that Jean-Claude Junckher has indicated the EU may want its own army in the future: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Defence_Community https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Defence_Community https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-army-european-commission-miltary https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-ju...

kristofferR 10y ago
Winston Churchill also voiced support for an "United States of Europe" in 1946, right after WW2: https://archive.is/kOGDK https://archive.is/kOGDK

dingaling 10y ago

> That mandate of the EU is, and always was, to prevent WW3. That's an interesting generational difference-of-view. Growing up in the Cold War, to us it was NATO that kept the peace both within the western hemisphere and within Europe. Barring a couple of tantrums it even kept Turkey and Greece from going to war! Best of all it didn't require much sacrifice of sovereignity other than perhaps bases for US forces and land for the pan-European fuel pipelines, plus keeping defence spending above the agreed thresholds. The EEC was barely mentioned in terms of international relations and we only studied it in school in the context of trade and agricultural policy. But those who grew-up in the post-Maastricht Treaty period seem to have a wholly different view of what the EU is and wants to be, and a very much poorer view of NATO. And I think that is reflected by the results of the UK referendum; to many of the Cold War generation the EU is an usurper, a bloated amorphous creature of indistinct purpose that evolved without their consent and seems to insert its tentacles into every aspect of their lives. Why does it exist, why is it needed and why can't it just focus on intra-European trade like it used to? Until those questions are answered there will always be people sceptical of the EU.