3 ms·

Okay, tau is a little better. Meanwhile, millions of lines of code are written in languages with no type system to speak of, millions of Americans use imperial

Okay, tau is a little better. Meanwhile, millions of lines of code are written in languages with no type system to speak of, millions of Americans use imperial measurements, billions worldwide speak languages that are inefficient and ambiguous, and many many people aren't even educated enough to know about pi or tau. We have much more damaging problems than multiplying by 2. Given the gigantic amount of effort it would take to fix this one, I think that effort could be better spent.

formula1 10y ago
I understand this perspective if arguments were a limited resource and that by not fighting about tau we would win other battles (which is not true). The reality is that there is no such thing as time "better spent" withoit enforcing some sort of oppressive regieme and ways to curb imagination. I believe the tau fight is one of the rare good fights.
- devishard 10y ago
  Arguments are a limited resource. I have 45 minutes on the train and I'm using it to argue about tau, and I don't have the time or energy for more. And when society is divided on a lot of issues, people run into outrage fatigue and become apathetic. And to say that there is no such thing as time better spent unless you enforce an oppressive regime is a perfect solution fallacy. Sure, people will always do inefficient things, but if I could persuade even one person to behave more efficiently, that's a pretty significant gain. I'd also like to note that if you're arguing for tau over the more popular pi based on its efficiency, you probably shouldn't argue against efficency.
  - formula1 10y ago
    Ooooo.... I feel your passion! Great points. Internet conversations will only take things so far, after conversation generally action is necessary. Whats nice about hacker news is that with many actions we can take action with functional programming or framework xyz immediately. With something like tau, publicity is its problem. So few people know about it that any sort of exposure benefits it. To say that untyped systems are worse than typed requires minimal exposure, simply more experience to understand why
EugeneOZ 10y ago
> "6/28 in the American calendar system" it's enough to ignore this day by all people except Americans, so don't worry about others :)
panglott 10y ago
> billions worldwide speak languages that are inefficient and ambiguous All humans speak languages that are inefficient and ambiguous. Thank goodness!
- devishard 10y ago
  No, not all humans speak. That's why I said what I said. It's splitting hairs, of course. :)
wtbob 10y ago
> millions of Americans use imperial measurements There are two types of countries: those using 'metric' units, and those who have been to the Moon. There's absolutely nothing fundamentally wrong with standard units (indeed, they are better for concrete manipulation). One can do science and engineering just as well with grains as with grams, with cups as with litres, with inches as with centimetres. They could do with a bit more regularisation (e.g. to make a fluid ounce a cube exactly 1, 1¼, sqrt(2) or 2 inches — each has advantages — and adjust the ounce accordingly), but they're each completely acceptable for their purpose. The advantage of the standard units is that they are easy to physically convert: cutting a yard into feet or a foot into inches is each (⅓ in one case; ⅓, ½, ½ in the other); dividing a gallon into cups is easy (½ × 4); dividing a pound into ounces is easy (½ x 4). The number of times a person converts between barleycorns and parsecs in a lifetime is approximately zero, while the number of times he takes one physical quantity of a unit and breaks it into smaller quantities is pretty common; optimising for the former is IMHO kinda foolish.
- jimktrains2 10y ago
  > There are two types of countries: those using 'metric' units, and those who have been to the Moon. What about Liberia and Myanmar?
- devishard 10y ago
  This would be entirely missing the point of my argument.
- sevenless 10y ago
  I hope you realized NASA using imperial caused the loss of a Mars rover.
  - kej 10y ago
    Mixing units caused the loss. All-imperial would have worked just as well as all-metric.
    - deleted 10y ago

formula1 10y ago

I understand this perspective if arguments were a limited resource and that by not fighting about tau we would win other battles (which is not true). The reality is that there is no such thing as time "better spent" withoit enforcing some sort of oppressive regieme and ways to curb imagination. I believe the tau fight is one of the rare good fights.

devishard 10y ago
Arguments are a limited resource. I have 45 minutes on the train and I'm using it to argue about tau, and I don't have the time or energy for more. And when society is divided on a lot of issues, people run into outrage fatigue and become apathetic. And to say that there is no such thing as time better spent unless you enforce an oppressive regime is a perfect solution fallacy. Sure, people will always do inefficient things, but if I could persuade even one person to behave more efficiently, that's a pretty significant gain. I'd also like to note that if you're arguing for tau over the more popular pi based on its efficiency, you probably shouldn't argue against efficency.
- formula1 10y ago
  Ooooo.... I feel your passion! Great points. Internet conversations will only take things so far, after conversation generally action is necessary. Whats nice about hacker news is that with many actions we can take action with functional programming or framework xyz immediately. With something like tau, publicity is its problem. So few people know about it that any sort of exposure benefits it. To say that untyped systems are worse than typed requires minimal exposure, simply more experience to understand why

EugeneOZ 10y ago

> "6/28 in the American calendar system" it's enough to ignore this day by all people except Americans, so don't worry about others :)

panglott 10y ago

> billions worldwide speak languages that are inefficient and ambiguous All humans speak languages that are inefficient and ambiguous. Thank goodness!

devishard 10y ago
No, not all humans speak. That's why I said what I said. It's splitting hairs, of course. :)

wtbob 10y ago

> millions of Americans use imperial measurements There are two types of countries: those using 'metric' units, and those who have been to the Moon. There's absolutely nothing fundamentally wrong with standard units (indeed, they are better for concrete manipulation). One can do science and engineering just as well with grains as with grams, with cups as with litres, with inches as with centimetres. They could do with a bit more regularisation (e.g. to make a fluid ounce a cube exactly 1, 1¼, sqrt(2) or 2 inches — each has advantages — and adjust the ounce accordingly), but they're each completely acceptable for their purpose. The advantage of the standard units is that they are easy to physically convert: cutting a yard into feet or a foot into inches is each (⅓ in one case; ⅓, ½, ½ in the other); dividing a gallon into cups is easy (½ × 4); dividing a pound into ounces is easy (½ x 4). The number of times a person converts between barleycorns and parsecs in a lifetime is approximately zero, while the number of times he takes one physical quantity of a unit and breaks it into smaller quantities is pretty common; optimising for the former is IMHO kinda foolish.

jimktrains2 10y ago
> There are two types of countries: those using 'metric' units, and those who have been to the Moon. What about Liberia and Myanmar?
devishard 10y ago
This would be entirely missing the point of my argument.
sevenless 10y ago
I hope you realized NASA using imperial caused the loss of a Mars rover.
- kej 10y ago
  Mixing units caused the loss. All-imperial would have worked just as well as all-metric.
  - deleted 10y ago