4 ms·

Do not forget that this very "self esteem" thingy is almost exclusively American. The other nations do not even think in such terms.

by sklogic 10y ago

viewer5 10y ago
What does that mean?
- sklogic 10y ago
  Americans are conditioned from the early childhood to value their "self esteem". The others do not even care.
inanutshellus 10y ago
I can't even process what you're saying. What culture doesn't acknowledge self respect, and one's place in society relative to others? Certainly there are small communities everywhere (even in America -- after all, they were prolific in America's infancy) that sought the creation of a hyper-communal and idyllic towns... but... those never scale because, well, people are selfish. But still. I just can't process what you're saying. Maybe I'm blinded by offense.
- sklogic 10y ago
  > What culture doesn't acknowledge self respect, and one's place in society relative to others? What culture (besides the Northern Americans) would so blindly equate self respect to self esteem? The others understand better that you can respect yourself even without the overblown, unrealistic views on your own abilities and virtues.
  - squeaky-clean 10y ago
    > The others understand better that you can respect yourself even without the overblown, unrealistic views on your own abilities and virtues I don't think self esteem means what you think it means.
- throwanem 10y ago
  > What culture doesn't acknowledge self respect But we're talking about self-esteem, which everyone is supposed to get for free. Self-respect, like the respect of others, must be earned. Equating the two is a quintessentially modern-American mistake (I'm a modern American, and I made this mistake myself for years), and I think that's what 'sklogic calls out above.
burkaman 10y ago
You're saying Americans are the only people in the world who care about themselves? Other countries are full of purely rational actors who attach no emotional value to their own abilities? Have you ever met a real person outside of America?
- sklogic 10y ago
  > You're saying Americans are the only people in the world who care about themselves? No, I'm saying that only Americans are so conditioned to value their "self esteem". There is no emphasis on this stupidity in the other cultures. It's all about the emphasis: http://faculty.washington.edu/jdb/articles/Cai%20et%20al.%20(2007)%20AJSP.pdf http://faculty.washington.edu/jdb/articles/Cai%20et%20al.%20...
  - burkaman 10y ago
    Ok, only Americans have over-inflated self esteem, that's a different statement. Still wrong, but at least it's a common stereotype. And I don't think that study supports your comment at all. > Supporting this contention, our Chinese participants reported liking themselves every bit as much as our European American participants. > This finding supports our claim that cultural differences in self-esteem arise from cultural differences in self-evaluations, with people from East Asian countries evaluating themselves less positively than people from Western countries. > Thus, even though cognitive self-evaluations are lower in China than in America, they are not less predictive of global self-esteem. This finding suggests that global self-esteem is experienced similarly across dissimilar cultures This study finds that self esteem is equally prevalent across the two cultures, and as far as I can see says nothing about how much the participants value their self esteem.
    - sklogic 10y ago
      > Ok, only Americans have over-inflated self esteem, Again. Only Americans are conditioned to value and cherish their self esteem. That was my statement. Other cultures do not put any emphasis on self esteem (and many consider it as something shameful to even talk about it).
nathanasmith 10y ago
>>Do not forget that this very "self esteem" thingy is almost exclusively American. The other nations do not even think in such terms. This over inflated sense of importance or "self esteem thingy" may be exclusively American but not anywhere close to all Americans subscribe to it. There are 330+ million people of various ages and backgrounds living in the US. I don't see how painting with such a broad brush like you have been does anything but inflame debate. My question is this though, as much as people like bandying DK around, has it not been replicated? Specific to you, has the effect not been tested anywhere outside North America?

Do not forget that this very "self esteem" thingy is almost exclusively American. The other nations do not even think in such terms.

by sklogic 10y ago

Do not forget that this very "self esteem" thingy is almost exclusively American. The other nations do not even think in such terms.

viewer5 10y ago

What does that mean?

sklogic 10y ago
Americans are conditioned from the early childhood to value their "self esteem". The others do not even care.

inanutshellus 10y ago

I can't even process what you're saying. What culture doesn't acknowledge self respect, and one's place in society relative to others? Certainly there are small communities everywhere (even in America -- after all, they were prolific in America's infancy) that sought the creation of a hyper-communal and idyllic towns... but... those never scale because, well, people are selfish. But still. I just can't process what you're saying. Maybe I'm blinded by offense.

sklogic 10y ago
> What culture doesn't acknowledge self respect, and one's place in society relative to others? What culture (besides the Northern Americans) would so blindly equate self respect to self esteem? The others understand better that you can respect yourself even without the overblown, unrealistic views on your own abilities and virtues.
- squeaky-clean 10y ago
  > The others understand better that you can respect yourself even without the overblown, unrealistic views on your own abilities and virtues I don't think self esteem means what you think it means.
throwanem 10y ago
> What culture doesn't acknowledge self respect But we're talking about self-esteem, which everyone is supposed to get for free. Self-respect, like the respect of others, must be earned. Equating the two is a quintessentially modern-American mistake (I'm a modern American, and I made this mistake myself for years), and I think that's what 'sklogic calls out above.

burkaman 10y ago

You're saying Americans are the only people in the world who care about themselves? Other countries are full of purely rational actors who attach no emotional value to their own abilities? Have you ever met a real person outside of America?

sklogic 10y ago
> You're saying Americans are the only people in the world who care about themselves? No, I'm saying that only Americans are so conditioned to value their "self esteem". There is no emphasis on this stupidity in the other cultures. It's all about the emphasis: http://faculty.washington.edu/jdb/articles/Cai%20et%20al.%20(2007)%20AJSP.pdf http://faculty.washington.edu/jdb/articles/Cai%20et%20al.%20...
- burkaman 10y ago
  Ok, only Americans have over-inflated self esteem, that's a different statement. Still wrong, but at least it's a common stereotype. And I don't think that study supports your comment at all. > Supporting this contention, our Chinese participants reported liking themselves every bit as much as our European American participants. > This finding supports our claim that cultural differences in self-esteem arise from cultural differences in self-evaluations, with people from East Asian countries evaluating themselves less positively than people from Western countries. > Thus, even though cognitive self-evaluations are lower in China than in America, they are not less predictive of global self-esteem. This finding suggests that global self-esteem is experienced similarly across dissimilar cultures This study finds that self esteem is equally prevalent across the two cultures, and as far as I can see says nothing about how much the participants value their self esteem.
  - sklogic 10y ago
    > Ok, only Americans have over-inflated self esteem, Again. Only Americans are conditioned to value and cherish their self esteem. That was my statement. Other cultures do not put any emphasis on self esteem (and many consider it as something shameful to even talk about it).

nathanasmith 10y ago

>>Do not forget that this very "self esteem" thingy is almost exclusively American. The other nations do not even think in such terms. This over inflated sense of importance or "self esteem thingy" may be exclusively American but not anywhere close to all Americans subscribe to it. There are 330+ million people of various ages and backgrounds living in the US. I don't see how painting with such a broad brush like you have been does anything but inflame debate. My question is this though, as much as people like bandying DK around, has it not been replicated? Specific to you, has the effect not been tested anywhere outside North America?