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Brexit: Berlin eyes Britain’s tech talent
- keithpeter 10y agoI noticed that as well. Part of me is saying 'easy come easy go' - weightless nomads &c. Part of me is thinking where do England's new companies come from. We'll find out in the next three to five years. The news machine wants dramatic events now but this one is more of a glacier.
- niccolop 10y agoI agree that the outcome will take time to truly be seen, especially in startup scene. It turns out though that roughly 30% of VCs money in the UK comes from the Europe Investment Fund (as Limited Partners in their funds), which is funded by the European Central Bank, of which the UK is currently a shareholder, although it will only be as long as it is a member of the EU. From an FT article on the subject: "To put some numbers on it, as of the end of 2015, there were 144 UK private equity funds supported by the EIF and almost 30,000 small businesses. The EIF estimated that €3bn in equity capital in 2015 had been enabled by its €655m direct investment that year." I wonder if that will have an impact on the ability to attract talent?
- dijit 10y agoGenerally speaking the largest portion of tech workers are young. Young usually means less tied to the ground they're standing and much more willing to relocate. Once an exodus has begun the benefits and social compliance will pull a large portion of hold-fasts into wherever the tech sector would be. The problem, however, is every country wants the tech sector to thrive, yet none are really attractive yet. We had a post on HN earlier about Romania, there was one yesterday about Spain and Netherlands has been on here twice. It's a chicken and egg problem, where the companies move the people will follow, you can't expect people to go to Berlin if there aren't enough jobs and it's a hard sell to a company to move if there is no talent. But companies absolutely have to make he first move.
- pantalaimon 10y ago> you can't expect people to go to Berlin if there aren't enough jobs But people have been moving to Berlin for years now, regardless of what Britain was doing. Affordable flats are already scarce and only getting more expensive - if anything, I'm afraid Brexit will only accelerate that development.
- demonshalo 10y agoEh.. Berlin is a freaking bad place for tech-talent to be in. I relocated there and worked for about 6 months before I actually came to the conclusion that it is nothing more than a rip off. I would happily move to the UK over Berlin in 9.5 out of 10 times. The German tax rates for singles are ridiculous (40+%) and the salaries are way below what the UK pays. In addition, the German culture's work mentality is very similar to that of factories. On top of that, the benefits are non-existent compared to the UK (let alone the US). http://demonshalo.com/the-sad-state-of-the-european-tech-scene/ http://demonshalo.com/the-sad-state-of-the-european-tech-sce...
- collyw 10y agoSalaries are way below what the UK pays, or way below what London pays? London often pays close to double other parts of the UK.
- ygra 10y agoMay correlate with cost of living, maybe?
- demonshalo 10y agoI usually find similar cities and compare them to each other. London is 2-3x better salary wise than Berlin. If you compare other parts of the UK with other parts of Germany, that gap might get smaller but I would argue that in my experience, the gap will most often be around 2x
- rostigerpudel 10y agoThe payscale links you provide in your blog provide some insight into why you seem to think that. In all of your examples (see links below for the lazy), the salary for a Senior Software Engineer is slightly below what payscale _thinks_ is the average national salary. The huge difference really lies in how payscale determines the "salary" in each country. So, when compared to the average (which factors in cost of living, social security etc.), the salary really isn't that much better in the US: US: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Senior_Software_Engineer/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Senior_Software_Engi... UK: http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Senior_Software_Engineer/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Senior_Software_Engi... FR: http://www.payscale.com/research/FR/Job=Senior_Software_Engineer/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/FR/Job=Senior_Software_Engi... SE: http://www.payscale.com/research/SE/Job=Senior_Software_Engineer/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/SE/Job=Senior_Software_Engi... DE: http://www.payscale.com/research/DE/Job=Senior_Software_Engineer/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/DE/Job=Senior_Software_Engi...
- throwaway987611 10y agoIt can eye the tech talent all it wants. I've lived in Frankfurt and in Berlin. I've lived in Paris. I've lived in Barcelona. I've spoken with many stock brokers. The one common denominator that I have found. Is that you can't just beat the feel of London. I know if I had the choice, to live in Europe or live in London. It certainly would not be Europe.
- AznHisoka 10y agoThe "feel" of London sounds so vague. What do you mean by it?
- hackerboos 10y agoOP is talking about that sinking feeling one feels when over half your paycheque is spent on rent.
- clentaminator 10y agoDon't forget the crushing feeling one gets (literally) while on the rail network.
- demonshalo 10y agoYea I know that feeling. It is the same feeling I got when I first saw that my tax rate in Berlin was @ 42% and then realized that whatever remains has to go into paying for the rent anyway.
- mullsork 10y agoThe rent is really getting ridiculous. Seems like a lot of people are stuck in the prices they had five years ago. Though if you pick a WG, or live with a partner, you should end up paying between 25-35% of your rent. Not too shabby, but it used to be a LOT less only a few years ago.
- _pmf_ 10y ago> when I first saw that my tax rate in Berlin was @ 42% And don't forget health insurance ... another smooth 20 percent off the result.
- kriro 10y agoIt will mostly depend on how the work permit situation plays out (and I suppose on the pound not tanking and making wages less attractive). A lot of London tech companies have a non-trivial number of non British employees. If there's any sort of work permit hickup that could be pretty troublesome. Another advantage of London, the financial sector could get trimmed substantially if there's an exodus to Frankfurt. I'm not as bullish on London not facing major issues as a startup hub due to the Brexit as most people I've talked to.
- jackgavigan 10y agoThe UK government has demonstrated a willingness to help the UK's tech sector get the talent it needs from outside the EU by streamlining the process for getting Tier 1 visas. Even if movement of labour is restricted after Brexit, I expect there to be a huge difference in the restrictions applied to unskilled migrants versus skilled migrants. In short, I don't think UK companies need to worry about being able to bring in the sort of talent they need. The fate of London's financial sector will depend on what sort of trade deal the UK and EU negotiate. The worst case scenario would be if the UK was denied access to the single market for financial services, including "passporting". However, the UK imports a lot more from the EU than it exports[1], so countries like Germany and the Netherlands are likely to accept a deal which means London continues as Europe's financial capital, in order to protect their own economies. 1: https://twitter.com/JackGavigan/status/747338413754331136 https://twitter.com/JackGavigan/status/747338413754331136
- rjsw 10y agoThe article seems to be mostly just comments from shovel salesmen.
- Kenji 10y agoYou gotta love how incredibly anti-Brexit the media are. They have to construct all kinds of imaginary scenarios (that haven't happened and probably will never happen) to bash the democratic decision of the British people.
- sebgr 10y agoThey democratically elected to basically jump off a cliff so you can't blame the media for having the time of it's life. And referendums aren't always a good idea, prop 8 in CA was overturned because we eventually realised its a bad idea.
- Kenji 10y agoThey democratically elected to basically jump off a cliff Scare-mongering. If you have to be in the EU to be able to trade, yes, to survive, then it is time to destroy the EU once and for all. No single entity should be able to terrorize the citizens of a nation state like that.
- deathcakes 10y agoStraw man - no one is saying we won't survive but you would have to be monumentally dim to not perceive that what has just happened, and what will continue to happen in Britain as a result of this decision will be orders of magnitude worse than the alternative - at least in the short to medium term. I can't predict the long term future and it may well be that the UK somehow manages to come out of this with more than the south west still part of it but the path there will involve a lot of suffering.
- Kenji 10y agoStraw man - no one is saying we won't survive He said jumping off the cliff. That is literally just saying the Brits won't survive. Besides, England will be able to make a trade deal with China (something the EU doesn't manage to do). Medium- to longterm, the benefits for the British people will be vast - and I'm not even starting to argue about political independence.
- bitL 10y agoBerlin = 0% equity. That's all you need to know.
- _pmf_ 10y agoWell, some people prefer real money to vague promises.
- bitL 10y ago"Arm aber sexy" - Berlin's motto for you ("poor but sexy"). You will be paid super low comparing to other big cities (MUC/HBR/FFM), your rent will be already on a very similar level, your managers will be selling you the "vibe", you'll be expected to work like a machine, and the only way for you to escape by winning the startup lottery by having significant chunk of equity won't be available to you. Win!
- themckman 10y agoUnfortunately, you're not going to find real money in Berlin either.
- hathym 10y agoI live in Paris, politicians here say and hope for the same thing.