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I wonder how much the unusability is actually related to weapon carry right. I mean, of course sword skill is useless for defence if you cannot carry a sword wi

I wonder how much the unusability is actually related to weapon carry right. I mean, of course sword skill is useless for defence if you cannot carry a sword with you. If it were otherwise, like in pre-Meiji Japan, I'm sure kendô skill would be better than nothing. But given that by the time warriors were taught real military fighting and not martial art in the modern meaning, the question is a non starter. So I agree with you and your teacher. Interestingly enough, from the 6 different clubs (aikidô, karate, iaidô, nippon kenpô, shaolin temple box, sumô) that were demonstrating their art at some event, the most effective or useful one seemed to be... sumô and nippon kenpô. The sumô dudes were very strong and had serious skill for putting done someone on the ground. The boxer kicks were pretty serious too. On the other side, the way people falled on aikidô kata seemed pretty fake, not to mention the karate dudes fighting thin air.

martin_a 10y ago
People always think aikidô is fake, until they try it. I couldn´t believe it for myself until a girl, two heads smaller than me and probably a third of my weight, brought me to the floor. There´s nothing fake in it. There is just pain if you resist, so you don´t. And besides that, the goal of aikidô is to prove the enemy that attacking you will not help him with anything. It´s not meant to overcome him with force, by pain or injuries. It´s very spiritual and different to other dôs. (I did aikidô for five years during university.)
- qrendel 10y ago
  The techniques aren't fake, they're just unreliable outside of training. It's one thing to pull it off against a training partner who is using a known subset of attacks and when you know they're coming. Different when you're in a chaotic self-defense situation and facing a fully-resisting opponent who will try anything to win. You need a much higher level of skill to deal with the latter than the former. It's the same as how a really good boxer can (against a less skilled opponent) just drop his hands and bob-and-weave to avoid strikes, but an average or unskilled boxer can't afford to try fancy, high-risk techniques, when simpler tactics are a much safer way to win the fight. That's the biggest problem with stuff like aikido for self-defense. Taking an average person and giving them six months or so of aikido training will NOT make them able to effortlessly toss around men 3x their size who are seriously trying to hurt them, and telling them that it will is selling them a dangerous lie. Even if they put in decades of training, they're still relying on relatively high-risk techniques when there are other more reliable ones. I don't mean to crap on anyone's favorite styles. Aikido is an art form with some self-defense applications, and it's great for that. But a lot of people don't understand how hard it is to beat someone who is massively bigger and stronger than you, and it's doing them a dangerous disservice to market it to them as more than that. (~5 years previous experience in tae kwon do, muay thai, BJJ, and hapkido, among others.)
  - peatmoss 10y ago
    This is well put. In judo, for example, most throws are pretty simple in having a readily discernible fulcrum. The setup and execution of the throws are efficient and reliable. In aikido, the point around which someone falls can often be floating unintuitively in space after a combined sequence of off balancings that are neither intuitive nor natural. I study aikido primarily today--not because it is easy, but because it's hard. I'm also utterly unconcerned with self defense. I train for those moments when everything is in alignment and either I or my training partner go vaulting effortlessly through the air. I wouldn't count on that happening in real life. In terms of self defense, people are almost always better off 1. giving an attacker what they want in terms of money or belongings, 2. Running away, 3. Fighting dirty--in that order.
  - robaato 10y ago
    Aikido is a very "broad church" - ranging from fluffy bunny to pretty hard styles - and the effectiveness can vary significantly. The principles and techniques can be very effective, but it depends on what/how you train (or who you train with). There are many reasons to train, and based on your reasons, you should choose the martial art you wish to study, and also the teacher/school where to study. That said, it can be a great idea to study with a good teacher (but of an art you are less keen on) who is close by, than the perfect martial art which you can only get to infrequently. Aikido isn't the best art to quickly learn how to defend yourself if that's all you want to do. But it has many pluses - "old man's judo" as a friend of mine said - you can keep going and keep getting better (if you practice) inspite of age... I can recommend: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Meditations-Violence-Comparison-Martial-Training/dp/1594391181 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Meditations-Violence-Comparison-Mar... for some thought provoking reading and study.
- peatmoss 10y ago
  Current aikidoka here--ukes are generally more compliant in aikido than, say, judo. But then again the throws often have a lot more going on, and thus require some level of compliance to just learn. Pressure ramps up as one advances, but there's really never shiai-level intensity. I mainly do aikido because it's insanely difficult (at least by my estimation having done judo and a somewhat more traditional jujitsu) and a good workout. I don't think aikido or most other martial arts are particularly good for self defense. Actual violence is ugly and unpredictable.

martin_a 10y ago

People always think aikidô is fake, until they try it. I couldn´t believe it for myself until a girl, two heads smaller than me and probably a third of my weight, brought me to the floor. There´s nothing fake in it. There is just pain if you resist, so you don´t. And besides that, the goal of aikidô is to prove the enemy that attacking you will not help him with anything. It´s not meant to overcome him with force, by pain or injuries. It´s very spiritual and different to other dôs. (I did aikidô for five years during university.)

qrendel 10y ago
The techniques aren't fake, they're just unreliable outside of training. It's one thing to pull it off against a training partner who is using a known subset of attacks and when you know they're coming. Different when you're in a chaotic self-defense situation and facing a fully-resisting opponent who will try anything to win. You need a much higher level of skill to deal with the latter than the former. It's the same as how a really good boxer can (against a less skilled opponent) just drop his hands and bob-and-weave to avoid strikes, but an average or unskilled boxer can't afford to try fancy, high-risk techniques, when simpler tactics are a much safer way to win the fight. That's the biggest problem with stuff like aikido for self-defense. Taking an average person and giving them six months or so of aikido training will NOT make them able to effortlessly toss around men 3x their size who are seriously trying to hurt them, and telling them that it will is selling them a dangerous lie. Even if they put in decades of training, they're still relying on relatively high-risk techniques when there are other more reliable ones. I don't mean to crap on anyone's favorite styles. Aikido is an art form with some self-defense applications, and it's great for that. But a lot of people don't understand how hard it is to beat someone who is massively bigger and stronger than you, and it's doing them a dangerous disservice to market it to them as more than that. (~5 years previous experience in tae kwon do, muay thai, BJJ, and hapkido, among others.)
- peatmoss 10y ago
  This is well put. In judo, for example, most throws are pretty simple in having a readily discernible fulcrum. The setup and execution of the throws are efficient and reliable. In aikido, the point around which someone falls can often be floating unintuitively in space after a combined sequence of off balancings that are neither intuitive nor natural. I study aikido primarily today--not because it is easy, but because it's hard. I'm also utterly unconcerned with self defense. I train for those moments when everything is in alignment and either I or my training partner go vaulting effortlessly through the air. I wouldn't count on that happening in real life. In terms of self defense, people are almost always better off 1. giving an attacker what they want in terms of money or belongings, 2. Running away, 3. Fighting dirty--in that order.
- robaato 10y ago
  Aikido is a very "broad church" - ranging from fluffy bunny to pretty hard styles - and the effectiveness can vary significantly. The principles and techniques can be very effective, but it depends on what/how you train (or who you train with). There are many reasons to train, and based on your reasons, you should choose the martial art you wish to study, and also the teacher/school where to study. That said, it can be a great idea to study with a good teacher (but of an art you are less keen on) who is close by, than the perfect martial art which you can only get to infrequently. Aikido isn't the best art to quickly learn how to defend yourself if that's all you want to do. But it has many pluses - "old man's judo" as a friend of mine said - you can keep going and keep getting better (if you practice) inspite of age... I can recommend: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Meditations-Violence-Comparison-Martial-Training/dp/1594391181 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Meditations-Violence-Comparison-Mar... for some thought provoking reading and study.
peatmoss 10y ago
Current aikidoka here--ukes are generally more compliant in aikido than, say, judo. But then again the throws often have a lot more going on, and thus require some level of compliance to just learn. Pressure ramps up as one advances, but there's really never shiai-level intensity. I mainly do aikido because it's insanely difficult (at least by my estimation having done judo and a somewhat more traditional jujitsu) and a good workout. I don't think aikido or most other martial arts are particularly good for self defense. Actual violence is ugly and unpredictable.