8 ms·

As a matter of fact "more range" is quite the opposite of what I want from Bluetooth. Do I really need to have 5000 keyboards within range of my computer at th

As a matter of fact "more range" is quite the opposite of what I want from Bluetooth. Do I really need to have 5000 keyboards within range of my computer at the office, instead of the 100 I already have? I definitely do not.

the_watcher 10y ago
Headphones are the big benefactor here, for me at least. I can walk to the kitchen with my wireless headphones.
- bokenator 10y ago
  I've found that microwave interferes very strongly with Bluetooth headphones
  - thomaskcr 10y ago
    And bodies. Had to move my laptop dock to the other side of my desk when I switched headphones from a pair that had the transmitter in the left ear to the right.
    - icebraining 10y ago
      Sacks of water will do that :)
      - digi_owl 10y ago
        Wet dogs can play havoc with wireless.
    - digi_owl 10y ago
      Yeah that is perhaps the most problematic aspect of Bluetooth. The radio interface is designed with the presumption of the signal bouncing off nearby surfaces. Thus it is sensitive to line of sight issues. Mind you, i have also been able to connect to a USB dongle through solid wood walls, so mileage may vary. Never mind that you can get two classes of radios, on top of the LE stuff. With each class having different transmission strengths.
  - kqr 10y ago
    Bluetooth is using the very same microwaves (much like wifi), so yes.
  - pi-rat 10y ago
    Both use the 2.4 ghz spectrum, so that makes sense - especially for bad microwaves. I had an old microwave that completely tanked my 2.4 ghz Wifi back in the days (very poorly shielded).
    - dominicgs 10y ago
      I still do. The ability to stream music in my kitchen is the reason I bought a 5GHz router.
- r0m4n0 10y ago
  Agree, I look forward to the day I can leave my iPhone in a gym locker and work out with just headphones
  - shurcooL 10y ago
    Would you be able to pause or control songs though?
    - gambiting 10y ago
      Sure, bluetooth had media controls for ages. I have a bluetooth waterproof speaker that I just take with me in the shower - and I leave my phone outside of the bathroom so it doesn't get wet. I can change songs and pause with buttons on the speaker, with the phone safely on the other side of the wall.
  - legulere 10y ago
    Aren't they often made out of metal and act like a faraday cage thus?
    - ascagnel_ 10y ago
      Typically, but not always. I've belonged to gyms that have had a metal mesh (along the lines of a stiffer chain-link fence), flat metal (like a high school locker), and wood cabinets for their lockers.
  - TD-Linux 10y ago
    I'd highly recommend getting a tiny mp3 player (say Clip Zip, though they are now discontinued...) and a short light headphone cable. Why send audio wirelessly when the tech to play it is as small as the receiver? There are also headphones with built in players, I don't know how the quality of those is though.
    - icebraining 10y ago
      Why send audio wirelessly when the tech to play it is as small as the receiver? Because you might want to stream audio from the Internet, or you don't want to waste time converting newer audio formats to MP3 and then copying them over, or you'd rather not have cables around you when you work out, or you might want to track what you've listen (particularly useful for audiobooks and long podcasts), etc. Yes, these are not indispensable life necessities nor anything like that, but given the choice, I'd rather beam the audio from my tablet than carry an extra player.
- BinaryIdiot 10y ago
  The problem though is the Sun will negatively affect Bluetooth range. If you're inside it's great and you can go into multiple rooms depending on the materials / wall thickness between you and the device. Once you go outside on a sunny day if the phone isn't directly in the line-of-sight (and even then) you'll get constant disconnects. Using multiple headsets / headphones and phones (including iPhone and multiple Androids) and I have yet to have one that DIDN'T do this. More range may help thing. Well I can hope anyway.
  - jmiserez 10y ago
    The Sun affects the range? How and why, that doesn't make sense at all?
    - BinaryIdiot 10y ago
      > How and why, that doesn't make sense at all? Not sure. I remember reading an article some time ago that stated the Sun's electromagnetic radiation could interfere with Bluetooth and it's always worked with my observations. I've used multiple Plantronics headsets, Motorola headphones and an off brand of headphones all with an iPhone 5S, iPhone 6+, Nexus 6P, Moto X and a Note 3 and in all of these devices they work great indoors and going outside on a sunny day it would break up (but cloudy always seemed to work better). It's entirely possible this is some crazy bullshit but my observations are real. So if it ends up being that the Sun does NOT provide interfere then it must be SOMETHING. I just had this issue this past week when I was working outside and had to grab my wired headphones.
      - digi_owl 10y ago
        Another, as likely, aspect, is that Bluetooth is designed around signals bouncing off surfaces. Try moving your phone from one side of the body to the other while outside. It may well be that your surroundings do not provide enough signal reflection. Keep in mind that most mobile bluetooth radios do not transmit with the same strength as wifi. Best i can tell, only USB dongles use a wifi equivalent radio class.
vhost- 10y ago
I need the range. I routinely grab my phone when I'm cooking dinner and walk to the living room causing my bluetooth speaker to make awful noises.
- cyphax 10y ago
  Is the bluetooth spec the limit though, or maybe the implementation? I can leave my phone on the table downstairs and my headphones still work fine in the attic, which is through 2 floors of reinforced concrete. I was very surprised to be able to do this, but kitchen-living room should be possible. Unless your kitchen is in the west wing, and your living room is a mile down the hall in the east wing in which case I'm envious of your living arrangement and understand the need for more range in the spec. ;)
  - abritinthebay 10y ago
    As it's 2.4ghz it may also be partially spectrum pollution. That said - that seems rather impressive for Bluetooth, I've had one reinforced concrete wall pretty consistently screw up most bluetooth signals in my experience, so I'd posit that you're getting unusually good reception there.
    - cyphax 10y ago
      I wonder what strength the radios broadcast on. I do have a 2.4GHz wifi-router both downstairs and in the attic so you would expect no signal at all, given the situation. I'll admit that by this point it's extremely sensitive to spectrum pollution; a nearby laptop with wifi on will mess with it enough that it starts stuttering. My only issue with bluetooth is with Android; it semi-randomly likes to change pitch and speed by a little [1]. Very noticeable if you listen to electronic music. Had it with my previous phone (Android M, CM) and now with my current phone (also Android M, stock) and different devices (headphones, car). [1]https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=209473 https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=209473
      - abritinthebay 10y ago
nowarninglabel 10y ago
I'm currently wearing a heart monitoring device that communicates over Bluetooth and would greatly benefit from greater range. Which is to say, there's certainly a market for folks needing greater range.
- elementalest 10y ago
  What something like a heart monitor would need above anything else is reliability.
  - diamondlovesyou 10y ago
    A monitor is not a life critical device, unless another critical device depends on the monitor's telemetry. Bluetooth is perfectly adequate in this case.
roymurdock 10y ago
The range increase is for distributed industrial network architectures, such as smart grids/cities. Bluetooth LE is aimed at long range, low power devices that are checking in with telemetry-type data every so often rather than pairing your phone and your keyboard to your computer.
- cbsmith 10y ago
  ...which is what Zigbee should be addressing.
  - wirelessfoobar 10y ago
    Phone manufacturers universally adopted Bluetooth as the standard wireless protocol for peripheral devices. Zigbee and other 802.15.4 protocols will always be at a disadvantage even for tasks the Bluetooth protocol is not suited for. Bluetooth chips are cheap and more widely supported than anything else because Bluetooth radios are manufactured at massive scale for the phone market.
    - cbsmith 10y ago
      The original poster was talking about scenarios with industrial devices and NOT for pairing with phones...
      - digi_owl 10y ago
        Bluetooth is already there, and if the same chip can be used in a phone or a button cell powered telemetry sensor, economies of scale kicks in. And BTLE is specifically designed to work without the pairing dance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy
        cbsmith 10y ago
        > Bluetooth is already there, and if the same chip can be used in a phone or a button cell powered telemetry sensor, economies of scale Actually, for industrial applications, it's more likely to be Zigbee that is already there, and the economies of scale will favour it over BTLE (particularly when you consider Zigbee allows thousands of devices in a network, while BTLE can't even get to double digits). There's a ton of other advantages to Zigbee for industrial applications (not the least of which is resiliency). Maybe you want a bluetooth bridge (though WiFi is probably very tempting for that purpose), but bluetooth is bad enough at doing its own job, let alone something else.
mtgx 10y ago
The main reason they are even increasing the range is for advertisers' rather than users' sake. They want advertisers to be able to "push" ads to people at a longer range.
thinkMOAR 10y ago
Depends on your goal :) if you want to listen in on 5000 different keyboards, then the range extension is quite welcome. Though personally i don't either.

the_watcher 10y ago

Headphones are the big benefactor here, for me at least. I can walk to the kitchen with my wireless headphones.

bokenator 10y ago
I've found that microwave interferes very strongly with Bluetooth headphones
- thomaskcr 10y ago
  And bodies. Had to move my laptop dock to the other side of my desk when I switched headphones from a pair that had the transmitter in the left ear to the right.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    Sacks of water will do that :)
    - digi_owl 10y ago
      Wet dogs can play havoc with wireless.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    Yeah that is perhaps the most problematic aspect of Bluetooth. The radio interface is designed with the presumption of the signal bouncing off nearby surfaces. Thus it is sensitive to line of sight issues. Mind you, i have also been able to connect to a USB dongle through solid wood walls, so mileage may vary. Never mind that you can get two classes of radios, on top of the LE stuff. With each class having different transmission strengths.
- kqr 10y ago
  Bluetooth is using the very same microwaves (much like wifi), so yes.
- pi-rat 10y ago
  Both use the 2.4 ghz spectrum, so that makes sense - especially for bad microwaves. I had an old microwave that completely tanked my 2.4 ghz Wifi back in the days (very poorly shielded).
  - dominicgs 10y ago
    I still do. The ability to stream music in my kitchen is the reason I bought a 5GHz router.
r0m4n0 10y ago
Agree, I look forward to the day I can leave my iPhone in a gym locker and work out with just headphones
- shurcooL 10y ago
  Would you be able to pause or control songs though?
  - gambiting 10y ago
    Sure, bluetooth had media controls for ages. I have a bluetooth waterproof speaker that I just take with me in the shower - and I leave my phone outside of the bathroom so it doesn't get wet. I can change songs and pause with buttons on the speaker, with the phone safely on the other side of the wall.
- legulere 10y ago
  Aren't they often made out of metal and act like a faraday cage thus?
  - ascagnel_ 10y ago
    Typically, but not always. I've belonged to gyms that have had a metal mesh (along the lines of a stiffer chain-link fence), flat metal (like a high school locker), and wood cabinets for their lockers.
- TD-Linux 10y ago
  I'd highly recommend getting a tiny mp3 player (say Clip Zip, though they are now discontinued...) and a short light headphone cable. Why send audio wirelessly when the tech to play it is as small as the receiver? There are also headphones with built in players, I don't know how the quality of those is though.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    Why send audio wirelessly when the tech to play it is as small as the receiver? Because you might want to stream audio from the Internet, or you don't want to waste time converting newer audio formats to MP3 and then copying them over, or you'd rather not have cables around you when you work out, or you might want to track what you've listen (particularly useful for audiobooks and long podcasts), etc. Yes, these are not indispensable life necessities nor anything like that, but given the choice, I'd rather beam the audio from my tablet than carry an extra player.
BinaryIdiot 10y ago
The problem though is the Sun will negatively affect Bluetooth range. If you're inside it's great and you can go into multiple rooms depending on the materials / wall thickness between you and the device. Once you go outside on a sunny day if the phone isn't directly in the line-of-sight (and even then) you'll get constant disconnects. Using multiple headsets / headphones and phones (including iPhone and multiple Androids) and I have yet to have one that DIDN'T do this. More range may help thing. Well I can hope anyway.
- jmiserez 10y ago
  The Sun affects the range? How and why, that doesn't make sense at all?
  - BinaryIdiot 10y ago
    > How and why, that doesn't make sense at all? Not sure. I remember reading an article some time ago that stated the Sun's electromagnetic radiation could interfere with Bluetooth and it's always worked with my observations. I've used multiple Plantronics headsets, Motorola headphones and an off brand of headphones all with an iPhone 5S, iPhone 6+, Nexus 6P, Moto X and a Note 3 and in all of these devices they work great indoors and going outside on a sunny day it would break up (but cloudy always seemed to work better). It's entirely possible this is some crazy bullshit but my observations are real. So if it ends up being that the Sun does NOT provide interfere then it must be SOMETHING. I just had this issue this past week when I was working outside and had to grab my wired headphones.
    - digi_owl 10y ago
      Another, as likely, aspect, is that Bluetooth is designed around signals bouncing off surfaces. Try moving your phone from one side of the body to the other while outside. It may well be that your surroundings do not provide enough signal reflection. Keep in mind that most mobile bluetooth radios do not transmit with the same strength as wifi. Best i can tell, only USB dongles use a wifi equivalent radio class.

vhost- 10y ago

I need the range. I routinely grab my phone when I'm cooking dinner and walk to the living room causing my bluetooth speaker to make awful noises.

cyphax 10y ago
Is the bluetooth spec the limit though, or maybe the implementation? I can leave my phone on the table downstairs and my headphones still work fine in the attic, which is through 2 floors of reinforced concrete. I was very surprised to be able to do this, but kitchen-living room should be possible. Unless your kitchen is in the west wing, and your living room is a mile down the hall in the east wing in which case I'm envious of your living arrangement and understand the need for more range in the spec. ;)
- abritinthebay 10y ago
  As it's 2.4ghz it may also be partially spectrum pollution. That said - that seems rather impressive for Bluetooth, I've had one reinforced concrete wall pretty consistently screw up most bluetooth signals in my experience, so I'd posit that you're getting unusually good reception there.
  - cyphax 10y ago
    I wonder what strength the radios broadcast on. I do have a 2.4GHz wifi-router both downstairs and in the attic so you would expect no signal at all, given the situation. I'll admit that by this point it's extremely sensitive to spectrum pollution; a nearby laptop with wifi on will mess with it enough that it starts stuttering. My only issue with bluetooth is with Android; it semi-randomly likes to change pitch and speed by a little [1]. Very noticeable if you listen to electronic music. Had it with my previous phone (Android M, CM) and now with my current phone (also Android M, stock) and different devices (headphones, car). [1]https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=209473 https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=209473
    - abritinthebay 10y ago

nowarninglabel 10y ago

I'm currently wearing a heart monitoring device that communicates over Bluetooth and would greatly benefit from greater range. Which is to say, there's certainly a market for folks needing greater range.

elementalest 10y ago
What something like a heart monitor would need above anything else is reliability.
- diamondlovesyou 10y ago
  A monitor is not a life critical device, unless another critical device depends on the monitor's telemetry. Bluetooth is perfectly adequate in this case.

roymurdock 10y ago

The range increase is for distributed industrial network architectures, such as smart grids/cities. Bluetooth LE is aimed at long range, low power devices that are checking in with telemetry-type data every so often rather than pairing your phone and your keyboard to your computer.

cbsmith 10y ago
...which is what Zigbee should be addressing.
- wirelessfoobar 10y ago
  Phone manufacturers universally adopted Bluetooth as the standard wireless protocol for peripheral devices. Zigbee and other 802.15.4 protocols will always be at a disadvantage even for tasks the Bluetooth protocol is not suited for. Bluetooth chips are cheap and more widely supported than anything else because Bluetooth radios are manufactured at massive scale for the phone market.
  - cbsmith 10y ago
    The original poster was talking about scenarios with industrial devices and NOT for pairing with phones...
    - digi_owl 10y ago
      Bluetooth is already there, and if the same chip can be used in a phone or a button cell powered telemetry sensor, economies of scale kicks in. And BTLE is specifically designed to work without the pairing dance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy
      - cbsmith 10y ago
        > Bluetooth is already there, and if the same chip can be used in a phone or a button cell powered telemetry sensor, economies of scale Actually, for industrial applications, it's more likely to be Zigbee that is already there, and the economies of scale will favour it over BTLE (particularly when you consider Zigbee allows thousands of devices in a network, while BTLE can't even get to double digits). There's a ton of other advantages to Zigbee for industrial applications (not the least of which is resiliency). Maybe you want a bluetooth bridge (though WiFi is probably very tempting for that purpose), but bluetooth is bad enough at doing its own job, let alone something else.

mtgx 10y ago

The main reason they are even increasing the range is for advertisers' rather than users' sake. They want advertisers to be able to "push" ads to people at a longer range.

thinkMOAR 10y ago

Depends on your goal :) if you want to listen in on 5000 different keyboards, then the range extension is quite welcome. Though personally i don't either.