4 ms·

Under your theory of the crime it was some form of negligent homicide? And you want to hold all the receptionists accountable (lose of job) because they neglige

by rbobby 10y ago

Under your theory of the crime it was some form of negligent homicide? And you want to hold all the receptionists accountable (lose of job) because they negligently did/failed to do what exactly?

SwellJoe 10y ago
Of course I don't want a receptionist who knew nothing of the crime to lose their job; but, the same scenario can be created for any person who goes to jail. No one wants a baby to grow up without their mother or father, but sometimes people commit crimes, and are punished with jail time, leading to suffering of their whole family. It's not good (and, I think there's a lot to be said for ending our carceral focused criminal justice system), but we as a society do seem to agree that sometimes the good of society as a whole trumps that of an individual or group. I'm not suggesting that imposing a "death penalty" on a corporation would be a nice thing, or that it would make employees of the corporation happy. I'm not even saying it wouldn't have negative consequences for more than just those directly employed by the company. But, I am saying that when someone commits a truly heinous crime, our society removes them from society by force. Volkswagen has committed a truly heinous crime. If I had my druthers, the CEO and a wide variety of other executives who knew what was going on would be spending their days in a lonely grey room contemplating what they've done. That'd be a good start toward justice. But, we also have to address the company as a whole. It was not one person who made this decision, and it's probably literally impossible to know who knew and who did what with any precision. Pretty much the entire company is suspect. We can't expect internal processes to correct this kind of malfeasance...they had years to do so, and chose profit over human lives. Finally: Many corporations have died, through all manner of faults over the years...often, they've failed due to inefficiencies, the Innovator's Dilemma, etc. Very few companies have failed because they killed people. But, it is not the end of the world when a company, even a very large one, dies. It makes room in the market for new competitors. And, in this case, a shake up in the auto industry is a great thing. We need new auto companies that don't willingly trade human and environmental health for greater profits. While VW exists, and wields political power, those new companies (or old companies that want to do right by the world) are competing with a company shown to have no scruples. Ever tried to compete in a business that has high health and safety costs with a competitor that ignores health and safety regulations? That's a part of why Chinese manufacturing destroyed American manufacturing industries. Someone else mentioned Enron in another comment. I think it's a useful example. The fallout from Enron was hard for a lot of people; and, it was painful across several industries for a little while. But, I believe we're better for killing Enron (and Arthur Andersen). And, I believe the world would be better off, in the long run, by killing VW.

by rbobby 10y ago

Under your theory of the crime it was some form of negligent homicide? And you want to hold all the receptionists accountable (lose of job) because they negligently did/failed to do what exactly?

SwellJoe 10y ago

Of course I don't want a receptionist who knew nothing of the crime to lose their job; but, the same scenario can be created for any person who goes to jail. No one wants a baby to grow up without their mother or father, but sometimes people commit crimes, and are punished with jail time, leading to suffering of their whole family. It's not good (and, I think there's a lot to be said for ending our carceral focused criminal justice system), but we as a society do seem to agree that sometimes the good of society as a whole trumps that of an individual or group. I'm not suggesting that imposing a "death penalty" on a corporation would be a nice thing, or that it would make employees of the corporation happy. I'm not even saying it wouldn't have negative consequences for more than just those directly employed by the company. But, I am saying that when someone commits a truly heinous crime, our society removes them from society by force. Volkswagen has committed a truly heinous crime. If I had my druthers, the CEO and a wide variety of other executives who knew what was going on would be spending their days in a lonely grey room contemplating what they've done. That'd be a good start toward justice. But, we also have to address the company as a whole. It was not one person who made this decision, and it's probably literally impossible to know who knew and who did what with any precision. Pretty much the entire company is suspect. We can't expect internal processes to correct this kind of malfeasance...they had years to do so, and chose profit over human lives. Finally: Many corporations have died, through all manner of faults over the years...often, they've failed due to inefficiencies, the Innovator's Dilemma, etc. Very few companies have failed because they killed people. But, it is not the end of the world when a company, even a very large one, dies. It makes room in the market for new competitors. And, in this case, a shake up in the auto industry is a great thing. We need new auto companies that don't willingly trade human and environmental health for greater profits. While VW exists, and wields political power, those new companies (or old companies that want to do right by the world) are competing with a company shown to have no scruples. Ever tried to compete in a business that has high health and safety costs with a competitor that ignores health and safety regulations? That's a part of why Chinese manufacturing destroyed American manufacturing industries. Someone else mentioned Enron in another comment. I think it's a useful example. The fallout from Enron was hard for a lot of people; and, it was painful across several industries for a little while. But, I believe we're better for killing Enron (and Arthur Andersen). And, I believe the world would be better off, in the long run, by killing VW.