3 ms·

I would like to see a US company pay 15B for not following the rules. If it were a US company, the fine with be in the millions. Biggest fines against US compa

by x5n1 10y ago

I would like to see a US company pay 15B for not following the rules. If it were a US company, the fine with be in the millions. Biggest fines against US companies. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/5-of-the-biggest-corporate-penalties-ever-2013-09-27?page=1 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/5-of-the-biggest-corporate-... So yeah this would be in the top 3 or 4 of the biggest ever fines paid by US companies.

GabrielF00 10y ago
Bank of America paid $16.65 billion.[https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/bank-america-pay-1665-billion-historic-justice-department-settlement-financial-fraud-leading https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/bank-america-pay-1665-billion...] The tobacco industry is paying over $200 billion (although that's split between a number of companies). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agre...]
deleted 10y ago
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wallace_f 10y ago
I don't agree with the fact you are being downvoted. Toyota and Honda have paid the largest safety-related fines in history: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-toyota-billion-dollar-justice-department-settlement-20140319-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-toyota-billion-doll... http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/honda-will-pay-largest-auto-safety-fine-in-us-history-for-lapses.html http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/honda-will-pay-largest-auto-... Compare Toyota's fine for it's failure to report safety defects to GM's in the GM ignition scandal. I think reasonable minds can conclude that they are both serious, but it is possible to make an argument GM's was more serious, and they paid a lesser fine. Also compare timelines, and the fact that US regulators were pressured by public discourse in the GM case. It's not crazy to come to the conclusion regulators show bias towards US automakers. It's actually no conspiracy at all that the US government has bias and favors US auto makers in public policy. Afterall, it was not long ago we gave GM a huge welfare check / bail out package. Ford to a lesser extent.
- Aoyagi 10y ago
  Sudden acceleration is less serious than "if you put a lot of heavy stuff on your car keys, it may turn the key when it's in the ignition box"?
  - wallace_f 10y ago
    OK, let's play ball: Here's the arguments I can make in 5 minutes of Google searching. My point is just that there's room for debate here (in other words, I'm not saying I am right and you are wrong, what I am saying is that reasonable people can agree there is reasonable debate on this issue). Argument 1: Toyota paid 1.2 billion dollars for failure to disclose safety defects linked to 5 deaths. Floor mats in Toyota cars may be linked to up to 34 more deaths. GM had to pay only 900 million for safety defects leading to at minimum 124 deaths, but the real death toll may be much, much higher than that, because as many as 90% of claims are not included in that figure as they are part of an ongoing civil dispute. Sources: 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch_recalls#Cause_of_ignition_failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch... 2. http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2014/03/19/toyota-in-us-settlement-over-unintended-acceleration-source.html http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2014/03/19/toyota-in-us-...) Argument 2 (an argument similar to yours that oversimplifies): Complete loss of control of your car (not even airbags functioning) is less serious than having floor mats in your car? Argument 3: Toyota paid 1.2 billion dollars for "having floor mats in their cars" and an extremely rare accelerator sticking issue that was linked to only 5 deaths. GM got off easy on an issue that caused complete loss of control of the car as ignition cut off, and not even the airbags would be deployed in this scenario. GM also internally was aware and discussed this defect for about a decade and did not disclose it. Argument 4: Most of the deaths in Toyota's case were linked to floor mats, but how much blame can we reasonable put on floor mats for causing accidents? Is it more or less than putting items on your key chain? Maybe it's not reasonable to assume items on your keychain a safety risk, but manipulating and kicking the floor mats out of their socket holders obviously could interfere with the accelerator pedal. Edit: I think no matter how you spin it, GM paid probably an order of magnitude less $$/human life than Toyota in these two cases.
    - 10y ago

by x5n1 10y ago

GabrielF00 10y ago

Bank of America paid $16.65 billion.[https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/bank-america-pay-1665-billion-historic-justice-department-settlement-financial-fraud-leading https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/bank-america-pay-1665-billion...] The tobacco industry is paying over $200 billion (although that's split between a number of companies). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agre...]

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

wallace_f 10y ago

I don't agree with the fact you are being downvoted. Toyota and Honda have paid the largest safety-related fines in history: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-toyota-billion-dollar-justice-department-settlement-20140319-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-toyota-billion-doll... http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/honda-will-pay-largest-auto-safety-fine-in-us-history-for-lapses.html http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/honda-will-pay-largest-auto-... Compare Toyota's fine for it's failure to report safety defects to GM's in the GM ignition scandal. I think reasonable minds can conclude that they are both serious, but it is possible to make an argument GM's was more serious, and they paid a lesser fine. Also compare timelines, and the fact that US regulators were pressured by public discourse in the GM case. It's not crazy to come to the conclusion regulators show bias towards US automakers. It's actually no conspiracy at all that the US government has bias and favors US auto makers in public policy. Afterall, it was not long ago we gave GM a huge welfare check / bail out package. Ford to a lesser extent.

Aoyagi 10y ago
Sudden acceleration is less serious than "if you put a lot of heavy stuff on your car keys, it may turn the key when it's in the ignition box"?
- wallace_f 10y ago
  OK, let's play ball: Here's the arguments I can make in 5 minutes of Google searching. My point is just that there's room for debate here (in other words, I'm not saying I am right and you are wrong, what I am saying is that reasonable people can agree there is reasonable debate on this issue). Argument 1: Toyota paid 1.2 billion dollars for failure to disclose safety defects linked to 5 deaths. Floor mats in Toyota cars may be linked to up to 34 more deaths. GM had to pay only 900 million for safety defects leading to at minimum 124 deaths, but the real death toll may be much, much higher than that, because as many as 90% of claims are not included in that figure as they are part of an ongoing civil dispute. Sources: 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch_recalls#Cause_of_ignition_failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch... 2. http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2014/03/19/toyota-in-us-settlement-over-unintended-acceleration-source.html http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2014/03/19/toyota-in-us-...) Argument 2 (an argument similar to yours that oversimplifies): Complete loss of control of your car (not even airbags functioning) is less serious than having floor mats in your car? Argument 3: Toyota paid 1.2 billion dollars for "having floor mats in their cars" and an extremely rare accelerator sticking issue that was linked to only 5 deaths. GM got off easy on an issue that caused complete loss of control of the car as ignition cut off, and not even the airbags would be deployed in this scenario. GM also internally was aware and discussed this defect for about a decade and did not disclose it. Argument 4: Most of the deaths in Toyota's case were linked to floor mats, but how much blame can we reasonable put on floor mats for causing accidents? Is it more or less than putting items on your key chain? Maybe it's not reasonable to assume items on your keychain a safety risk, but manipulating and kicking the floor mats out of their socket holders obviously could interfere with the accelerator pedal. Edit: I think no matter how you spin it, GM paid probably an order of magnitude less $$/human life than Toyota in these two cases.
  - 10y ago