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This sounds like the past 10 years of my life. I can't even enjoy normal life activities anymore... And I can't afford to take a long enough break to recover (i

This sounds like the past 10 years of my life. I can't even enjoy normal life activities anymore... And I can't afford to take a long enough break to recover (if that's still possible?). I don't even care about memories anymore - I'm in survival mode; I'm just a bullet moving towards its target. It's like I've been running through a tunnel as fast possible for a long time and I can finally just see the light at the end of it, but I know there's a train coming in my direction and if I don't make it out of the tunnel in time it's going to get really dark and ugly.

kafkaesq 10y ago
If you care to share - why would that be?
- jondubois 10y ago
  I've been working on my latest project for about 5 years (before that I spent 5 years on a project which ended in failure) with my latest project, the market has kept changing and I keep pivoting in subtle ways to stay relevant. I've never raised any funding and I'm competing against really well funded startups so basically every few months, I see some other company implement my idea (ahead of me) and I have to keep refining the idea and narrowing my target market in order to stay competitive. I managed to find some people to join the project so it's a bit better now but much of the weight is still on me.
  - Retric 10y ago
    Plus minus 2 weeks is not going to kill a 5 year old project. Take a little time, recharge and think about exiting sell / quit ect. You only have one life and burning 10 years for a nominal return is enough.
  - netule 10y ago
    It's scary to think that with some minor alterations I could have written your previous two posts. The worst thing is that deep down I enjoy the pressure even though I know it's slowly destroying my life and everything I love. I just seem to take it and turn to stone.
    - kirubakaran 10y ago
      Please make a change and the addiction will wear off. Not easy, but worthwhile.
  - smokeyj 10y ago
    I've experience the exact same thing. It becomes a cyclical rut of feeling like you're not making enough progress on a project, then feeling guilty for spending time enjoying other things. Thoughts like "why should I enjoy my sunday morning in the park? I could be working feature x". My advice isn't for everyone, but I got over the rut by realizing we're not going to be young and healthy forever. The term YOLO has become epitomized with young people making stupid decisions but some of us should really take it to heart. I read a piece about making life decisions based on a regret minimization framework. Essentially you ask yourself which life you'd regret least when you're 80 and that's what you should do. I asked myself whether I'd regret never launching a successful product more, or never living a fulfilling life with adventure and meaningful relationships. On a more concrete note, it's important for me to schedule time for exercise and fun. It helps by keeping me productive and my brain healthy, but also you won't have that voice in your head saying "hey, you should really be working on that other feature right now".
  - kafkaesq 10y ago
    Sometimes in order to "speed up" (in the sense of a deep, longer-range goal) -- you need to slow down. So like the others are saying -- I really hope you can take a vacation soon.
tsunamifury 10y ago
This is actually one of the symptoms of anxiety -- it makes you over-estimate the consequences of stopping. You need to choose to take time, push through the initial panic rush that will come from it, then come out the other side.
- adamnemecek 10y ago
  Can you talk more about this? Do you have any resources on dealing with this? OPs description hits a bit too close to home.
  - dccooper 10y ago
    One of the most common frameworks to thinking about anxiety is CBT (Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy). Basically there are both things that you’re doing and things that you’re thinking that trap you in a cycle of anxiety. The symptom tsunamifury talked about is what we call Catastrophizing – that is you over-estimate / over-value negative consequences over positive or neutral ones. It’s not just “If I stop working or slow down, I might not make as much money,” it is instead, “If I even take time to slow down, all my peers will be better than me or I might miss that one opportunity that’s going to make or break my career and then my professional life will be over and I might as well spend my time making software for businesses in the middle of Oklahoma.” What I’d try and get patients to do is to rationally evaluate the evidence that any or all of these might happen. Is one missed connection really going to make or break your career? Is one failed pitch? Do you know of any founders/devs who failed big and recovered? What makes you think you couldn’t do the same. If you want to know more, here are some good places to start – mix of websites and articles. (Apologies in advance for the potato quality on some of these links – I’m slowly dragging my field into the 21st century.) I’d also recommend going to see a therapist – even if it’s just for a few sessions. It might be helpful to get an outside viewpoint on your current situation. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-practice/201212/cognitive-behavioral-skills-youll-need-beat-anxiety https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-practice/201212/cogn... http://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/step1.htm http://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/step1.htm http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3263389/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3263389/ http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/anxiety-treatment.aspx http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/anxiety-treatment.aspx (Source: Me, I'm a psychologist who's done therapy with clients and now makes mobile apps. I tried to make this as HN-oriented as possible)
gt565k 10y ago
Take 2 weeks off and buy an airplane ticket asap. It helps to have something to look forward to. Go to a different country, a change of scenery, new cultures to explore are always a great way to take your mind off the daily grind.
- tostitos1979 10y ago
  This is not a bad suggestion. Sometimes your sanity requires taking a break. We forget the world/company/team doesn't stop without "us". Being in a different environment really helps. I've done a weekend trip to Disney and a longer trip to Hawaii. Both were done with little planning and really helped me out.
- vvanders 10y ago
  Going to throw a visible +1 into the ring here. The only way over burnout is to put some distance between yourself and work. Also, it's incredibly hard to self-evaluate your output when you're overworked and stressed. You may think you're making forward progress but you're usually harming the project and yourself more.
- jondubois 10y ago
  I refined my initial comment a little to not to sound so depressing. I do enjoy my work itself but the pursuit of success is not enjoyable when you don't get any meaningful results - Especially when the whole system feels like it is stacked against you. I did change countries recently - I'm working remotely but it's definitely not a break.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - notduncansmith 10y ago
    Hey, I've definitely felt that way before, and know a few friends that spent a good deal of time there. Sometimes you can spend so much time in a paper bag you forget that it's a paper bag you could punch your way out of any time you want. If it's not too personal, how is it that you feel that the system is stacked against you?
EnFinlay 10y ago
What's the light at the end? What's the train and why is it going to get dark and ugly? I'm not being facetious, I'm wondering if you're feeling the same thing as me.
xyience 10y ago
What's your burn rate? That is, if you stop doing any income-producing activities, how long can you live off of savings? Considering burning through them all for a long period of no work. Or if you think you can manage for longer, try to get to the magic number where 4% of your investments (assuming at least 5% annual ROI) covers your expenses, thus making you 'retired'. Recovery (at least partial) is still possible, but you might be at the point where the first year of recovery looks like a lot of doing nothing but sleeping: http://jacquesmattheij.com/dealing-with-burn-out http://jacquesmattheij.com/dealing-with-burn-out
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- IanOzsvald 10y ago
  Some years ago (6 or so, from memory) I realised I'd been consulting in a role for too long and gone stale and had lost my creativity (not burned out, but approaching that state). I had just enough money to survive for 6 months so I stopped work, chilled and then started to play with tech again. I returned to consulting after 6 months and everything immediately picked up again. Years before (11 years ago I think) I left a start-up completely burned out, having just bought an apartment, with no spare money (all my cash went into the purchase). The start-up had run out of salary, I was angry and wasn't in a clear space. I bailed the UK and walked around Morocco for a month on my own (I got very bored of my own company), on the very last of my money. When I returned, very refreshed, I started my consulting career. That break was essential to let myself recover. It surprised me how much the rest of the world hadn't changed in that month, whilst my outlook was totally different (happy, positive and ready for the challenges ahead).
_98fj 10y ago
If you take some days off: Are you feeling better? Than burning out is your main problem. If you actually start to feel worse when having time to relax, that hints at different problems like depression or anxiety.
reacweb 10y ago
I had chronic rhinitis, probably linked to air pollution (near Paris). I have done a checkup of my sleep quality. It has shown a slight Sleep apnea disorder. I am taking corticoids (nasal spray) since 2 month. My nose is a lot better, but the main improvement in about my memory and my concentration. I think memory is very important for programming. I can work a lot faster since I take this treatment.

kafkaesq 10y ago

If you care to share - why would that be?

jondubois 10y ago
I've been working on my latest project for about 5 years (before that I spent 5 years on a project which ended in failure) with my latest project, the market has kept changing and I keep pivoting in subtle ways to stay relevant. I've never raised any funding and I'm competing against really well funded startups so basically every few months, I see some other company implement my idea (ahead of me) and I have to keep refining the idea and narrowing my target market in order to stay competitive. I managed to find some people to join the project so it's a bit better now but much of the weight is still on me.
- Retric 10y ago
  Plus minus 2 weeks is not going to kill a 5 year old project. Take a little time, recharge and think about exiting sell / quit ect. You only have one life and burning 10 years for a nominal return is enough.
- netule 10y ago
  It's scary to think that with some minor alterations I could have written your previous two posts. The worst thing is that deep down I enjoy the pressure even though I know it's slowly destroying my life and everything I love. I just seem to take it and turn to stone.
  - kirubakaran 10y ago
    Please make a change and the addiction will wear off. Not easy, but worthwhile.
- smokeyj 10y ago
  I've experience the exact same thing. It becomes a cyclical rut of feeling like you're not making enough progress on a project, then feeling guilty for spending time enjoying other things. Thoughts like "why should I enjoy my sunday morning in the park? I could be working feature x". My advice isn't for everyone, but I got over the rut by realizing we're not going to be young and healthy forever. The term YOLO has become epitomized with young people making stupid decisions but some of us should really take it to heart. I read a piece about making life decisions based on a regret minimization framework. Essentially you ask yourself which life you'd regret least when you're 80 and that's what you should do. I asked myself whether I'd regret never launching a successful product more, or never living a fulfilling life with adventure and meaningful relationships. On a more concrete note, it's important for me to schedule time for exercise and fun. It helps by keeping me productive and my brain healthy, but also you won't have that voice in your head saying "hey, you should really be working on that other feature right now".
- kafkaesq 10y ago
  Sometimes in order to "speed up" (in the sense of a deep, longer-range goal) -- you need to slow down. So like the others are saying -- I really hope you can take a vacation soon.

tsunamifury 10y ago

This is actually one of the symptoms of anxiety -- it makes you over-estimate the consequences of stopping. You need to choose to take time, push through the initial panic rush that will come from it, then come out the other side.

adamnemecek 10y ago
Can you talk more about this? Do you have any resources on dealing with this? OPs description hits a bit too close to home.
- dccooper 10y ago
  One of the most common frameworks to thinking about anxiety is CBT (Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy). Basically there are both things that you’re doing and things that you’re thinking that trap you in a cycle of anxiety. The symptom tsunamifury talked about is what we call Catastrophizing – that is you over-estimate / over-value negative consequences over positive or neutral ones. It’s not just “If I stop working or slow down, I might not make as much money,” it is instead, “If I even take time to slow down, all my peers will be better than me or I might miss that one opportunity that’s going to make or break my career and then my professional life will be over and I might as well spend my time making software for businesses in the middle of Oklahoma.” What I’d try and get patients to do is to rationally evaluate the evidence that any or all of these might happen. Is one missed connection really going to make or break your career? Is one failed pitch? Do you know of any founders/devs who failed big and recovered? What makes you think you couldn’t do the same. If you want to know more, here are some good places to start – mix of websites and articles. (Apologies in advance for the potato quality on some of these links – I’m slowly dragging my field into the 21st century.) I’d also recommend going to see a therapist – even if it’s just for a few sessions. It might be helpful to get an outside viewpoint on your current situation. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-practice/201212/cognitive-behavioral-skills-youll-need-beat-anxiety https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-practice/201212/cogn... http://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/step1.htm http://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/step1.htm http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3263389/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3263389/ http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/anxiety-treatment.aspx http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/anxiety-treatment.aspx (Source: Me, I'm a psychologist who's done therapy with clients and now makes mobile apps. I tried to make this as HN-oriented as possible)

gt565k 10y ago

Take 2 weeks off and buy an airplane ticket asap. It helps to have something to look forward to. Go to a different country, a change of scenery, new cultures to explore are always a great way to take your mind off the daily grind.

tostitos1979 10y ago
This is not a bad suggestion. Sometimes your sanity requires taking a break. We forget the world/company/team doesn't stop without "us". Being in a different environment really helps. I've done a weekend trip to Disney and a longer trip to Hawaii. Both were done with little planning and really helped me out.
vvanders 10y ago
Going to throw a visible +1 into the ring here. The only way over burnout is to put some distance between yourself and work. Also, it's incredibly hard to self-evaluate your output when you're overworked and stressed. You may think you're making forward progress but you're usually harming the project and yourself more.
jondubois 10y ago
I refined my initial comment a little to not to sound so depressing. I do enjoy my work itself but the pursuit of success is not enjoyable when you don't get any meaningful results - Especially when the whole system feels like it is stacked against you. I did change countries recently - I'm working remotely but it's definitely not a break.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- notduncansmith 10y ago
  Hey, I've definitely felt that way before, and know a few friends that spent a good deal of time there. Sometimes you can spend so much time in a paper bag you forget that it's a paper bag you could punch your way out of any time you want. If it's not too personal, how is it that you feel that the system is stacked against you?

EnFinlay 10y ago

What's the light at the end? What's the train and why is it going to get dark and ugly? I'm not being facetious, I'm wondering if you're feeling the same thing as me.

xyience 10y ago

What's your burn rate? That is, if you stop doing any income-producing activities, how long can you live off of savings? Considering burning through them all for a long period of no work. Or if you think you can manage for longer, try to get to the magic number where 4% of your investments (assuming at least 5% annual ROI) covers your expenses, thus making you 'retired'. Recovery (at least partial) is still possible, but you might be at the point where the first year of recovery looks like a lot of doing nothing but sleeping: http://jacquesmattheij.com/dealing-with-burn-out http://jacquesmattheij.com/dealing-with-burn-out

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
IanOzsvald 10y ago
Some years ago (6 or so, from memory) I realised I'd been consulting in a role for too long and gone stale and had lost my creativity (not burned out, but approaching that state). I had just enough money to survive for 6 months so I stopped work, chilled and then started to play with tech again. I returned to consulting after 6 months and everything immediately picked up again. Years before (11 years ago I think) I left a start-up completely burned out, having just bought an apartment, with no spare money (all my cash went into the purchase). The start-up had run out of salary, I was angry and wasn't in a clear space. I bailed the UK and walked around Morocco for a month on my own (I got very bored of my own company), on the very last of my money. When I returned, very refreshed, I started my consulting career. That break was essential to let myself recover. It surprised me how much the rest of the world hadn't changed in that month, whilst my outlook was totally different (happy, positive and ready for the challenges ahead).

_98fj 10y ago

If you take some days off: Are you feeling better? Than burning out is your main problem. If you actually start to feel worse when having time to relax, that hints at different problems like depression or anxiety.

reacweb 10y ago

I had chronic rhinitis, probably linked to air pollution (near Paris). I have done a checkup of my sleep quality. It has shown a slight Sleep apnea disorder. I am taking corticoids (nasal spray) since 2 month. My nose is a lot better, but the main improvement in about my memory and my concentration. I think memory is very important for programming. I can work a lot faster since I take this treatment.