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> ISP competition is important, but I see this as a symptom, not a cause. Fix the root problem, and people might start caring about ISP choice. Once renters car

> ISP competition is important, but I see this as a symptom, not a cause. Fix the root problem, and people might start caring about ISP choice. Once renters care about ISP choice, big landlords will fall into line Depends on where you live. In NYC, Verizon promised to provide fiber to the entire city several years back (and there is currently a massive legal dispute with the city because they've fallen incredibly short of delivering on that)[0]. It's particularly apalling because Verizon didn't even have to build out most of the fiber - the city already had a dark fiber network covering large portions of the city. I'm one of the unlucky ones. Verizon has fiber running right in front of my building - other buildings on the block already have Fios. However, Verizon refuses to provide Internet to my building unless they can also provide TV service as well[1]. The landlord has given Time Warner Cable the exclusive rights to provide TV service in my building, so that means that I'm stuck with only one choice, even though it's technically a "competitive" market. So, this issue is both a symptom and an exacerbating cause pf ISP non-competition. At least in NYC, exclusivity agreements make it much easier for the local monopolies[2] to pretend that they aren't blocking competition, when in reality they've carefully drawn lines around their territories and have a "gentleman's agreement" not to encroach on each others'. If landlords didn't (or couldn't) receive kickbacks like these, it'd be much harder for them to maintain this illusion. [0] http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20150713/BLOGS04/150719982/de-blasio-administration-goes-after-verizon-for-failing-to-deliver-fios http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20150713/BLOGS04/150719... [1] This is not hypothetical; I've called up their offices more than once and confirmed that this is the blocking step before they schedule a date to hook up the building. [2] TWC, Comcast, and Optimum have exclusivity rights to buildings all across the city.

rayiner 10y ago
Cities using TV franchises to block competition and extract tithes is a huge part of the problem. Verizon wanted to wire up Baltimore with FiOS. Baltimore refused to give them a TV license. The economics of FiOS don't really work out without TV service, so nobody got FiOS except a few luxury buildings that were easy to wire up.
- chimeracoder 10y ago
  > Cities using TV franchises to block competition and extract tithes is a huge part of the problem I can't speak to Baltimore, but in NYC, it's the landlord that's responsible for this, not the city. > The economics of FiOS don't really work out without TV service I can sort of buy that argument in areas where they have to do all the buildout themselves, but in New York, Verizon was handed the existing fiber network that already ran past people's doors. Then Verizon has the gall to claim that they've fulfilled their obligations of wiring the city because 'everyone has fiber running past their door', even where they did literally no work and simply sat on the fiber that others had already built for them.
  - rayiner 10y ago
    > even though they did literally no work and simply sat on the fiber that others had already built for them. Source? Verizon has stated it invested $3.5 billion and ran 15,000 miles of fiber in New York.
    - c_c_c 10y ago
      Do you enjoy Verizon press releases? "Miles ran", "houses passed". Industry doublespeak. NYC residents invested those billions via rate hikes the PUC granted to Verizon!! It was subsidized even though Verizon claims otherwise. And they didn't deliver. http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doitt/downloads/pdf/verizon-audit.pdf http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doitt/downloads/pdf/verizon-audit... https://www3.dps.ny.gov/pscweb/WebFileRoom.nsf/Web/B849A020314983A3852575D900530827/%24File/pr09054.pdf https://www3.dps.ny.gov/pscweb/WebFileRoom.nsf/Web/B849A0203... http://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/415-15/de-blasio-administration-releases-audit-report-verizon-s-citywide-fios-implementation http://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/415-15/de-blasi...
      - rayiner 10y ago
        I trust public company press releases that commit to concrete numbers: there is a cottage industry of plaintiffs' lawyers that bring securities class actions for material misstatements of financial information. NY residents didn't invest anything in fiber. Verizon got rate hikes because it has been losing billions of dollars a year in NY. Nationwide, Verizon's wireline profit margin is in the low single digits--it's utterly ridiculous to say they're receiving a "subsidy" in the form of above-market monopoly prices.
eric_h 10y ago
I'm one of the lucky ones. I moved into a brand new building in queens ~6 months ago, and though the management company said it was ready for both Time Warner Cable and Verizon FiOS, when I called Time Warner (to move my existing cable plan to my new place) they didn't even have the address for my building in their system (to their credit, the building was an empty lot on google street view). Verizon did, so I jumped ship. Installation literally took an entire day, but now I've got 100 Mb symmetric, though I actually get closer to 120. And, the hardware is nicely hidden away in an embedded alcove in a closet. As an aside, i've only got internet, I will never pay for a cable tv subscription again.

rayiner 10y ago

Cities using TV franchises to block competition and extract tithes is a huge part of the problem. Verizon wanted to wire up Baltimore with FiOS. Baltimore refused to give them a TV license. The economics of FiOS don't really work out without TV service, so nobody got FiOS except a few luxury buildings that were easy to wire up.

chimeracoder 10y ago
> Cities using TV franchises to block competition and extract tithes is a huge part of the problem I can't speak to Baltimore, but in NYC, it's the landlord that's responsible for this, not the city. > The economics of FiOS don't really work out without TV service I can sort of buy that argument in areas where they have to do all the buildout themselves, but in New York, Verizon was handed the existing fiber network that already ran past people's doors. Then Verizon has the gall to claim that they've fulfilled their obligations of wiring the city because 'everyone has fiber running past their door', even where they did literally no work and simply sat on the fiber that others had already built for them.
- rayiner 10y ago
  > even though they did literally no work and simply sat on the fiber that others had already built for them. Source? Verizon has stated it invested $3.5 billion and ran 15,000 miles of fiber in New York.
  - c_c_c 10y ago
    Do you enjoy Verizon press releases? "Miles ran", "houses passed". Industry doublespeak. NYC residents invested those billions via rate hikes the PUC granted to Verizon!! It was subsidized even though Verizon claims otherwise. And they didn't deliver. http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doitt/downloads/pdf/verizon-audit.pdf http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doitt/downloads/pdf/verizon-audit... https://www3.dps.ny.gov/pscweb/WebFileRoom.nsf/Web/B849A020314983A3852575D900530827/%24File/pr09054.pdf https://www3.dps.ny.gov/pscweb/WebFileRoom.nsf/Web/B849A0203... http://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/415-15/de-blasio-administration-releases-audit-report-verizon-s-citywide-fios-implementation http://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/415-15/de-blasi...
    - rayiner 10y ago
      I trust public company press releases that commit to concrete numbers: there is a cottage industry of plaintiffs' lawyers that bring securities class actions for material misstatements of financial information. NY residents didn't invest anything in fiber. Verizon got rate hikes because it has been losing billions of dollars a year in NY. Nationwide, Verizon's wireline profit margin is in the low single digits--it's utterly ridiculous to say they're receiving a "subsidy" in the form of above-market monopoly prices.

eric_h 10y ago

I'm one of the lucky ones. I moved into a brand new building in queens ~6 months ago, and though the management company said it was ready for both Time Warner Cable and Verizon FiOS, when I called Time Warner (to move my existing cable plan to my new place) they didn't even have the address for my building in their system (to their credit, the building was an empty lot on google street view). Verizon did, so I jumped ship. Installation literally took an entire day, but now I've got 100 Mb symmetric, though I actually get closer to 120. And, the hardware is nicely hidden away in an embedded alcove in a closet. As an aside, i've only got internet, I will never pay for a cable tv subscription again.