3 ms·

> What I've found shocking in all this is the vitrol of the "winners". Brexiters (and Trump voters) have been called naive, idiots, racists, xenophobes, sheeple

> What I've found shocking in all this is the vitrol of the "winners". Brexiters (and Trump voters) have been called naive, idiots, racists, xenophobes, sheeple, and worse. ("Losers" comes to mind.) Racism (racial discrimination and racial hate speech) is illegal in this country and given some deplorable scenes we've seen over the past few days, I think anyone being racist should be heavily reprimanded. I don't want to squash people's views by calling out racism, quite the opposite. I've been trying to have calm, rational discussions with people to try to understand why they voted out. Unfortunately I've only been told media soundbites such as "we want our country back" and "immigrants claim too many benefits". It usually ends in "I'm entitled to my opinion".

hiram112 10y ago
>I think anyone being racist should be heavily reprimanded. The problem with this is that many who share this idea don't have a good idea of what 'racism' actually is. Note: it is NOT racist to vote for policies that advantage yourself over someone from another group, perhaps of a different race, whom you've never met, and to whom you owe nothing.
- chillacy 10y ago
  > Racism can be present in social actions, practices, or political systems (e.g., apartheid) that support the expression of prejudice or aversion in discriminatory practices Literally in the first paragraph of wikipedia's article Or even Marriam-Webster: > : racial prejudice or discrimination (discrimination being the part where you advantage yourself over others). Just think: if you were a minority in some aspect, how would you like to be treated? As for the practice of always voting for your in-group, this is something our founding fathers (assuming you're american) have known was a limitation of democracies, and leads to bad times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
nickik 10y ago
Let me give you my views on why I would have voted against it if I were British. First, I am pro immigration, much more so then almost anybody you will meet. However their are other isses. What people who vote stay don't seem to take into account is the difference between "Europe coming togther" as an idea and the actual implentation that is the current EU. My issue with the EU are many. Its not democratic in any meaningful way and it wasn't created democratically. Why all of those leftist who usually scream "democracy!" never speak out against the EU is frankly a riddle to me. The EU economic policy rangr from stupid and pointless to stupid and harmful. The most important part of the EU, single market' could easly be done with a simple agreement. I will not go into the long list of other idiocy done by the EU. My project of european integration would start with many reginal and if possible Europe with agreements but without much of a burocracy on top of it. Every agreement should be democratically senctioned. Take Switzerland as an example. We forced a vote amd voted "no" against the EU after our government commited us to it (that called a "referendum"). For other isses like the Schengen border control agreement we voted yes. It this European integration projects need explicity institutions, they should be single pourpose, such as the European Space Agency. I am frankly sick of all the "Remain" people who are so sure about their oppinion that eveybody who disagrees must be a racist moron. And that predictions made by that, don't even have a chance to be wrong. As for Switzerland, those who wanted to join back then also had dire predictions. The loudly claimed that Switzerland would be begging to get in. Now, nobody in their right mind wants to join anymore. The EU has neatly managed to completly dicredit itself. If Britain leaves, my prediction is that in 10 years, nobody wants to join anymore.
- switch007 10y ago
  > I am frankly sick of all the "Remain" people who are so sure about their oppinion that eveybody who disagrees must be a racist moron. I specifically referred to the people being racist. Not all "leave" voters. > Take Switzerland as an example. No, I don't think I will.

hiram112 10y ago

>I think anyone being racist should be heavily reprimanded. The problem with this is that many who share this idea don't have a good idea of what 'racism' actually is. Note: it is NOT racist to vote for policies that advantage yourself over someone from another group, perhaps of a different race, whom you've never met, and to whom you owe nothing.

chillacy 10y ago
> Racism can be present in social actions, practices, or political systems (e.g., apartheid) that support the expression of prejudice or aversion in discriminatory practices Literally in the first paragraph of wikipedia's article Or even Marriam-Webster: > : racial prejudice or discrimination (discrimination being the part where you advantage yourself over others). Just think: if you were a minority in some aspect, how would you like to be treated? As for the practice of always voting for your in-group, this is something our founding fathers (assuming you're american) have known was a limitation of democracies, and leads to bad times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

nickik 10y ago

Let me give you my views on why I would have voted against it if I were British. First, I am pro immigration, much more so then almost anybody you will meet. However their are other isses. What people who vote stay don't seem to take into account is the difference between "Europe coming togther" as an idea and the actual implentation that is the current EU. My issue with the EU are many. Its not democratic in any meaningful way and it wasn't created democratically. Why all of those leftist who usually scream "democracy!" never speak out against the EU is frankly a riddle to me. The EU economic policy rangr from stupid and pointless to stupid and harmful. The most important part of the EU, single market' could easly be done with a simple agreement. I will not go into the long list of other idiocy done by the EU. My project of european integration would start with many reginal and if possible Europe with agreements but without much of a burocracy on top of it. Every agreement should be democratically senctioned. Take Switzerland as an example. We forced a vote amd voted "no" against the EU after our government commited us to it (that called a "referendum"). For other isses like the Schengen border control agreement we voted yes. It this European integration projects need explicity institutions, they should be single pourpose, such as the European Space Agency. I am frankly sick of all the "Remain" people who are so sure about their oppinion that eveybody who disagrees must be a racist moron. And that predictions made by that, don't even have a chance to be wrong. As for Switzerland, those who wanted to join back then also had dire predictions. The loudly claimed that Switzerland would be begging to get in. Now, nobody in their right mind wants to join anymore. The EU has neatly managed to completly dicredit itself. If Britain leaves, my prediction is that in 10 years, nobody wants to join anymore.

switch007 10y ago
> I am frankly sick of all the "Remain" people who are so sure about their oppinion that eveybody who disagrees must be a racist moron. I specifically referred to the people being racist. Not all "leave" voters. > Take Switzerland as an example. No, I don't think I will.