4 ms·

This is a "guilty by association" logical fallacy. While some Brexitors are racist xenophobes, not all are. I find it hard to believe that 51% of the (voting) p

by basseq 10y ago

This is a "guilty by association" logical fallacy. While some Brexitors are racist xenophobes, not all are. I find it hard to believe that 51% of the (voting) public is racist. This is the same thing that underpins the erroneous, "All Muslims are terrorists!" trope. Of course they're not! Your last paragraph makes a solid point, but it's a tough point to make. You're asking people to effectively vote against their own best interests because it's in the best interests of someone else. Any rational voter will rightly wonder why they should have to suffer to better someone else: shouldn't there be a solution that benefits all? (Or, bluntly, a solution that impacts a minority of voters who can't change the status quo?)

switch007 10y ago
> While some Brexitors are racist xenophobes, not all are And the ones that are should not be called racist xenophobes because they they voted leave and the other 50.99% might get upset about the association?
- Nadya 10y ago
  The point trying to be made is that they are racist because they are racist - not that they are racist because they are Brexitors. It's an important distinction to make. In the same vein of thought, terrorists should be called terrorists because they are terrorists and not because they are Muslim. And I happen to agree that Muslims shouldn't be called terrorists and not just because some majority % would be upset about the association.
- nickik 10y ago
  Your arrogance is truly stagering. The EU is large institution and their are many reasons to be against it. I would wager that I am far more pro-immigration the you are and I would have voted leave.
capote 10y ago
> You're asking people to effectively vote against their own best interests because it's in the best interests of someone else. I'm asking people to consider the fundamental rights of others and to notice that they're at risk. Compared to putting up with the status quo for a bit longer, losing fundamental rights and being discriminated against by the government is a much larger issue. I'm asking people to put up with the status quo for a bit more because the only alternative is discrimination and would take away fundamental rights of others.
- GrumpyYoungMan 10y ago
  >I'm asking people to consider the fundamental rights of others and to notice that they're at risk. This may come as a shock but you'd be surprised at how little anyone cares about the "fundamental rights of others" when their own livelihood and the well being of their families are at risk regardless of what part of the political spectrum they're on. This is not an attack on you nor sarcasm, just a blunt statement of fact. The left (of which I am a part) cannot, can not, ask people to "put up with the status quo for a bit more" in the current political environment. That will lead to Brexits, President Trump, and whatever lies beyond. Instead of berating them for being "uneducated" and "voting against their own interests", we on the left must remember our role as champions of the working class and relieve their economic suffering _now_, "fundamental rights of others" be damned, or we will all pay the price.
  - hiram112 10y ago
    >I'm asking people to consider the fundamental rights of others and to notice that they're at risk. The cognitive dissonance is unbelievable, especially from those who are otherwise pretty intelligent. 1) immigrants making choices to come to a country in order to improve their economic situation are heroes. 2) non-immigrants voting for policies to improve their economic situation are haters and bigots.
    - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
      I would love for people in my country to vote for policies that improved their economic conditions. Instead they listen to propaganda pushed by multiple billionaires (and many, many millionaires) working together to change politics, and who've discovered the best way to get people to vote against their own interests is fear of the other.
      - basseq 10y ago
        The irony in your comment is that both sides are saying the same thing! No one thinks they are voting against their best interests, billionaires exist on both sides of the spectrum, and fear is a tool used by the right and the left.

by basseq 10y ago

switch007 10y ago

> While some Brexitors are racist xenophobes, not all are And the ones that are should not be called racist xenophobes because they they voted leave and the other 50.99% might get upset about the association?

Nadya 10y ago
The point trying to be made is that they are racist because they are racist - not that they are racist because they are Brexitors. It's an important distinction to make. In the same vein of thought, terrorists should be called terrorists because they are terrorists and not because they are Muslim. And I happen to agree that Muslims shouldn't be called terrorists and not just because some majority % would be upset about the association.
nickik 10y ago
Your arrogance is truly stagering. The EU is large institution and their are many reasons to be against it. I would wager that I am far more pro-immigration the you are and I would have voted leave.

capote 10y ago

> You're asking people to effectively vote against their own best interests because it's in the best interests of someone else. I'm asking people to consider the fundamental rights of others and to notice that they're at risk. Compared to putting up with the status quo for a bit longer, losing fundamental rights and being discriminated against by the government is a much larger issue. I'm asking people to put up with the status quo for a bit more because the only alternative is discrimination and would take away fundamental rights of others.

GrumpyYoungMan 10y ago
>I'm asking people to consider the fundamental rights of others and to notice that they're at risk. This may come as a shock but you'd be surprised at how little anyone cares about the "fundamental rights of others" when their own livelihood and the well being of their families are at risk regardless of what part of the political spectrum they're on. This is not an attack on you nor sarcasm, just a blunt statement of fact. The left (of which I am a part) cannot, can not, ask people to "put up with the status quo for a bit more" in the current political environment. That will lead to Brexits, President Trump, and whatever lies beyond. Instead of berating them for being "uneducated" and "voting against their own interests", we on the left must remember our role as champions of the working class and relieve their economic suffering _now_, "fundamental rights of others" be damned, or we will all pay the price.
- hiram112 10y ago
  >I'm asking people to consider the fundamental rights of others and to notice that they're at risk. The cognitive dissonance is unbelievable, especially from those who are otherwise pretty intelligent. 1) immigrants making choices to come to a country in order to improve their economic situation are heroes. 2) non-immigrants voting for policies to improve their economic situation are haters and bigots.
  - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
    I would love for people in my country to vote for policies that improved their economic conditions. Instead they listen to propaganda pushed by multiple billionaires (and many, many millionaires) working together to change politics, and who've discovered the best way to get people to vote against their own interests is fear of the other.
    - basseq 10y ago
      The irony in your comment is that both sides are saying the same thing! No one thinks they are voting against their best interests, billionaires exist on both sides of the spectrum, and fear is a tool used by the right and the left.