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"Custom" framework.. idiosyncratic code. Code that is probably not properly documented, not properly vetted, or maintained as technology evolves. It is not to s

by rsyntax 10y ago

"Custom" framework.. idiosyncratic code. Code that is probably not properly documented, not properly vetted, or maintained as technology evolves. It is not to say it can't be done (e.g. fb, google, ms), but the cost of doing so greatly outweighs the benefits. For example, security concerns of your "custom" framework and onboarding of new engineering into your team. And are you really in the business fo "custom" framework?

taurath 10y ago
A purpose built application if built well will not only do the job more efficiently but also be easy to maintain. If you write exclusively attached to a framework it creates just as much work for someone who knows the underlying technologies but not the framework as it would for someone who knows a framework. You'll end up tying your application to that framework. Sure, say you want to quickly hire 20 coders to work on a project - use a framework (or be like Facebook, or Google and create your own...). I've found hiring framework developers is a good path to getting work only in that framework. Devs who are more versed in the underlying technologies have in my experience been more flexible and put out better products for the domain they're working in.
coldtea 10y ago
>"Custom" framework.. idiosyncratic code. Code that is probably not properly documented, not properly vetted, or maintained as technology evolves. Well, Flask is 95% just two persons [1] and 5% among 10 others. And the one responsible for creating it and writing 60% of it doesn't even have it as his first priority (has multiple other libs, codes Go, etc). A lot of widely used Javascript libs are not even that lucky. Heck, GTK+ itself, one of the pillars of Gnome and used by millions, was down to 1 maintainer a few years ago, who openly complained about it (not sure if things improved since). Unless it's some large, focused project with bit traction, tons of books and courses on it, etc., like React, Angular etc (usually with some corporate backing too), a lot of the things that pass for serious frameworks and libraries are anything but, and a lot is hardly a "community" project either. Some person slapped together something and thousands adopted it because "frameworks are better than writing your own code". Then the person moves on, or some small team that leads the project decides to rewrite it from scratch to try new stuff because they have short attention spans, and you're left with an abandoned code in your hands, which you haven't wrote yourself, and don't have time to understand fully. A framework can be good to start with if you're doing stuff close to its confines, but otherwise its how Joe Armstrong described OOP: "You wanted a banana but what you got was a gorilla holding the banana and the entire jungle". Notice how all major companies, from Facebook and Google, to Twitter and Microsoft and Apple etc have written their own frameworks. Perhaps their programmers didn't know that already existing frameworks are better? Or were they focused on their actual problems and pain points, instead of lowest common denominator solutions? [1] https://github.com/pallets/flask/graphs/contributors https://github.com/pallets/flask/graphs/contributors
- RussianCow 10y ago
  But that doesn't really matter, because those frameworks have mindshare. If I have a specific issue that I don't know how to solve in Angular or Flask or whatever, I can search online, and chances are good that someone has run into the exact same issue and solved it. If I'm using someone else's custom-built framework, I have to either consult the original author, which may not be practical, or figure it out myself by digging through the code. For anything that needs to be maintained in the long run, I'd take something written using a popular framework, with all its flaws, over something written from scratch any day.

by rsyntax 10y ago

taurath 10y ago

A purpose built application if built well will not only do the job more efficiently but also be easy to maintain. If you write exclusively attached to a framework it creates just as much work for someone who knows the underlying technologies but not the framework as it would for someone who knows a framework. You'll end up tying your application to that framework. Sure, say you want to quickly hire 20 coders to work on a project - use a framework (or be like Facebook, or Google and create your own...). I've found hiring framework developers is a good path to getting work only in that framework. Devs who are more versed in the underlying technologies have in my experience been more flexible and put out better products for the domain they're working in.

coldtea 10y ago

>"Custom" framework.. idiosyncratic code. Code that is probably not properly documented, not properly vetted, or maintained as technology evolves. Well, Flask is 95% just two persons [1] and 5% among 10 others. And the one responsible for creating it and writing 60% of it doesn't even have it as his first priority (has multiple other libs, codes Go, etc). A lot of widely used Javascript libs are not even that lucky. Heck, GTK+ itself, one of the pillars of Gnome and used by millions, was down to 1 maintainer a few years ago, who openly complained about it (not sure if things improved since). Unless it's some large, focused project with bit traction, tons of books and courses on it, etc., like React, Angular etc (usually with some corporate backing too), a lot of the things that pass for serious frameworks and libraries are anything but, and a lot is hardly a "community" project either. Some person slapped together something and thousands adopted it because "frameworks are better than writing your own code". Then the person moves on, or some small team that leads the project decides to rewrite it from scratch to try new stuff because they have short attention spans, and you're left with an abandoned code in your hands, which you haven't wrote yourself, and don't have time to understand fully. A framework can be good to start with if you're doing stuff close to its confines, but otherwise its how Joe Armstrong described OOP: "You wanted a banana but what you got was a gorilla holding the banana and the entire jungle". Notice how all major companies, from Facebook and Google, to Twitter and Microsoft and Apple etc have written their own frameworks. Perhaps their programmers didn't know that already existing frameworks are better? Or were they focused on their actual problems and pain points, instead of lowest common denominator solutions? [1] https://github.com/pallets/flask/graphs/contributors https://github.com/pallets/flask/graphs/contributors

RussianCow 10y ago
But that doesn't really matter, because those frameworks have mindshare. If I have a specific issue that I don't know how to solve in Angular or Flask or whatever, I can search online, and chances are good that someone has run into the exact same issue and solved it. If I'm using someone else's custom-built framework, I have to either consult the original author, which may not be practical, or figure it out myself by digging through the code. For anything that needs to be maintained in the long run, I'd take something written using a popular framework, with all its flaws, over something written from scratch any day.