5 ms·

I’ve never seen this. Partly it may be A/B testing and I was never in the B group, but I think people are closing dialog boxes without thinking enough about how

by Decade 10y ago

I’ve never seen this. Partly it may be A/B testing and I was never in the B group, but I think people are closing dialog boxes without thinking enough about how they’re closing them, and accidentally agreeing to upgrade.

nitrogen 10y ago
No matter the dialog box, closing it should always mean "do nothing and go back to where I was before", not "do your sneaky crap later when I'm asleep or busy". Anything else is a malignant antipattern.
- freehunter 10y ago
  Don't Chrome and Firefox do this by default now? Automatically download an update in the background and install it without asking when you close the browser window?
  - Vexs 10y ago
    There's a pretty sizable difference between chrome updates and updating from 7 to 10. The fundamentals of chrome remain the same, and for 99% of users they don't notice a difference. Granted, they've never really done a "chrome 2" style of upgrade, and I'm curious how they'll handle it.
  - sametmax 10y ago
    Do not compare an a paid OS I run a business on which upgrade one entire version, force rebooting, freezing my machine and introducing incompatibilities and spywares with an free opensource browser that I can merely swap with any competitor at a click of a button in my start menu. I don't run my main source of income on Firefox or Android. I didn't pay a licence for a browser or a phone OS. I can't find a quick alternative as quickly for my dev laptop as I can for those. Hopefully I got a dual boot and make sure I don't boot Windows anymore, otherwise it would be really dangerous, as I could be giving a training and suddenly get my machine locked for some undesired upgrade in from of my customers.
    - freehunter 10y ago
      Hey whoa, calm down there. What's really funny is you're getting upset but then ignore all the people who do make their main source of income in Firefox or Chrome, and need the stability in their browsers to support a specific feature. Remember IE6 and how many applications were coded exactly to that browser? And then people bitched that Microsoft didn't automatically update that browser, even though doing so would have broken compatibility with a ton of business apps. For me, OS doesn't matter one bit. Sure, one could be more convenient with certain features, but in the long run, everything I do at work depends on the browser, and specifically depends on Firefox. The application I support at work is programmed to work on Firefox and it's the only browser it's tested on. If Mozilla made some breaking change and I was automatically upgraded, my work comes to a screeching halt. Maybe I don't even notice something is broken until I'm giving a client demo. Pretty embarrassing, huh? So yeah, I can compare an OS to a browser, because the same purpose that the OS serves for you, the browser serves for me. I can't just switch browsers with a click of a button. I can't find an alternative. It's Firefox or nothing, a supported version of Firefox or nothing. Funny how some people have different needs, and funny how some people can dismiss those needs without even a thought, just because they may not apply to themselves. But luckily my work controls what version of Firefox is released to our PCs. It's not pushed to our internal yum repositories until it's been tested. And funny enough, if your business really depends on a stable Windows environment, you have the tools to do the exact same thing. I recommend you use them.
      - sametmax 10y ago
        First, you haven't paid for that software. Secondly, this software is an execution environment on an another machine, so you don't have control over it's update cycle, even if it wasn't auto update. Finally, version updates in browser can not be compared in any way to an OS version update, they are usually quite minor. Besides, when they do break something, you got thousand of publication telling you it's comming and what's it gona do to your code. There is no such thing here. You are on your machine, minding your own business on something you have paid, expecting support for it. You are harassed with an upgrade you don't need and you refuse. Then you are updated against your will, sometime it reboot in a moment you need it and lock your machine for some time. And then if you do accept the upgrade (out of "I don't have time for this s*"), you don't know what's going to break. Your scanner ? Your drawing tablet ? Personnaly, my login broke, it's in a state of a perpetual guest session. Now compare that to Ubuntu, luckily on my second partition. It's supported for 5 years despite the fact I didn't pay for it, and doesn't force me to upgrade. Oh, and it's not full of spywares.
- Decade 10y ago
  No, I said, “how” they’re closing it. If you click the OK button, the dialog box should close but you would expect something to happen. The issue is that people are unhealthily conditioned into clicking Cancel, and Flash and Java never get updated, and everything is terrible. So, Microsoft designed a dialog that is less likely to get Canceled. Now there are reports that Windows 10 is installing when you click the X in the title bar. I have not seen this happen. Maybe this does happen, but on the other hand, I always see people closing dialog boxes without fully reading and comprehending what they say. With the scheduled install option, your unwitting “choice” could even have been days ago. I think the situation is sort of bad, but the situation started sort of bad. "No software project is ever done, so you are always really buying a subscription, and the sooner you realize it, the sooner you can act like it." - Neal Ford. More to the point, Windows was never yours. It was always Microsoft’s. As long as you are using something that is not yours, it’s advantageous to use the latest, best-maintained version that you are able to use.

by Decade 10y ago

nitrogen 10y ago

No matter the dialog box, closing it should always mean "do nothing and go back to where I was before", not "do your sneaky crap later when I'm asleep or busy". Anything else is a malignant antipattern.

freehunter 10y ago
Don't Chrome and Firefox do this by default now? Automatically download an update in the background and install it without asking when you close the browser window?
- Vexs 10y ago
  There's a pretty sizable difference between chrome updates and updating from 7 to 10. The fundamentals of chrome remain the same, and for 99% of users they don't notice a difference. Granted, they've never really done a "chrome 2" style of upgrade, and I'm curious how they'll handle it.
- sametmax 10y ago
  Do not compare an a paid OS I run a business on which upgrade one entire version, force rebooting, freezing my machine and introducing incompatibilities and spywares with an free opensource browser that I can merely swap with any competitor at a click of a button in my start menu. I don't run my main source of income on Firefox or Android. I didn't pay a licence for a browser or a phone OS. I can't find a quick alternative as quickly for my dev laptop as I can for those. Hopefully I got a dual boot and make sure I don't boot Windows anymore, otherwise it would be really dangerous, as I could be giving a training and suddenly get my machine locked for some undesired upgrade in from of my customers.
  - freehunter 10y ago
    Hey whoa, calm down there. What's really funny is you're getting upset but then ignore all the people who do make their main source of income in Firefox or Chrome, and need the stability in their browsers to support a specific feature. Remember IE6 and how many applications were coded exactly to that browser? And then people bitched that Microsoft didn't automatically update that browser, even though doing so would have broken compatibility with a ton of business apps. For me, OS doesn't matter one bit. Sure, one could be more convenient with certain features, but in the long run, everything I do at work depends on the browser, and specifically depends on Firefox. The application I support at work is programmed to work on Firefox and it's the only browser it's tested on. If Mozilla made some breaking change and I was automatically upgraded, my work comes to a screeching halt. Maybe I don't even notice something is broken until I'm giving a client demo. Pretty embarrassing, huh? So yeah, I can compare an OS to a browser, because the same purpose that the OS serves for you, the browser serves for me. I can't just switch browsers with a click of a button. I can't find an alternative. It's Firefox or nothing, a supported version of Firefox or nothing. Funny how some people have different needs, and funny how some people can dismiss those needs without even a thought, just because they may not apply to themselves. But luckily my work controls what version of Firefox is released to our PCs. It's not pushed to our internal yum repositories until it's been tested. And funny enough, if your business really depends on a stable Windows environment, you have the tools to do the exact same thing. I recommend you use them.
    - sametmax 10y ago
      First, you haven't paid for that software. Secondly, this software is an execution environment on an another machine, so you don't have control over it's update cycle, even if it wasn't auto update. Finally, version updates in browser can not be compared in any way to an OS version update, they are usually quite minor. Besides, when they do break something, you got thousand of publication telling you it's comming and what's it gona do to your code. There is no such thing here. You are on your machine, minding your own business on something you have paid, expecting support for it. You are harassed with an upgrade you don't need and you refuse. Then you are updated against your will, sometime it reboot in a moment you need it and lock your machine for some time. And then if you do accept the upgrade (out of "I don't have time for this s*"), you don't know what's going to break. Your scanner ? Your drawing tablet ? Personnaly, my login broke, it's in a state of a perpetual guest session. Now compare that to Ubuntu, luckily on my second partition. It's supported for 5 years despite the fact I didn't pay for it, and doesn't force me to upgrade. Oh, and it's not full of spywares.
Decade 10y ago
No, I said, “how” they’re closing it. If you click the OK button, the dialog box should close but you would expect something to happen. The issue is that people are unhealthily conditioned into clicking Cancel, and Flash and Java never get updated, and everything is terrible. So, Microsoft designed a dialog that is less likely to get Canceled. Now there are reports that Windows 10 is installing when you click the X in the title bar. I have not seen this happen. Maybe this does happen, but on the other hand, I always see people closing dialog boxes without fully reading and comprehending what they say. With the scheduled install option, your unwitting “choice” could even have been days ago. I think the situation is sort of bad, but the situation started sort of bad. "No software project is ever done, so you are always really buying a subscription, and the sooner you realize it, the sooner you can act like it." - Neal Ford. More to the point, Windows was never yours. It was always Microsoft’s. As long as you are using something that is not yours, it’s advantageous to use the latest, best-maintained version that you are able to use.