4 ms·

Do we officially have better-than-Java on all platforms now?

interdrift 10y ago
Looks like it.
16bytes 10y ago
Language and tooling wise? Yes, or very close to it. There's a lot to be said about the huge amount of value in the main maven repository vs. what's in nuget. Java's decade long head start in that area doesn't seem so huge when you look at what the node.js community has put together in only a few years. If you were considering .net on a new project, however, I would probably recommend comparing something like Scala. Scala has the benefits of being a "modern" language like C# with the full support of all or nearly all of the existing JVM projects. That being said, there are a growing number of reasons to choose .net on non-windows platforms.
- oblio 10y ago
  I'd argue that it will be a while for Nuget to catch up. When I go on Maven Central I expect every library to be cross platform except for those marked as platform dependent. For Nuget... all bets are off for now. It's the exact opposite, I assume that things are not portable or at least have not been tested on say, Linux.
- rbanffy 10y ago
  > Java's decade long head start in that area doesn't seem so huge when you look at what the node.js community has put together in only a few years. It's easier to follow than to blaze a path. We have learned from Java and can, hopefully, avoid those pains.
PopsiclePete 10y ago
Yeah but so what. If the "best" language always won, why isn't the entire world running on Haskell and Rust or whatever? Java's eco-system is ginormous and it's deeply entrenched as the "corporate stack" in non-MS shops, with more than 15 years of history. I'm afraid this is just too late to make a big dent. C# is nicer than Java, but not that much nicer to warrant switching over or rewriting your stuff in a very immature eco-system. Maybe they're hoping to capture some of that elusive start-up market- and mind-share? That one is already pretty hostile towards MS... Either way, this is a good thing, I just wish they had done this in 2005 or so.
- simonswords82 10y ago
  Microsoft's previous stewardship would never have allowed what they're doing now sadly. They must have lost years of progress with their previous strategy of locking things down. Still, better late than never - I love where they're going with .Net now.
- tracker1 10y ago
  I'm not entirely sure about that.. Node.js has made huge inroads in the 6-7 years it's been around, and Go is pretty popular in some circles as well. Also, look at how RoR grew. It's entirely possible we'll see a shift towards .Net away from Java as an option for lots of projects. Especially as the tooling for micro-services and docker (or similar) gain traction moving forward. C# is pretty well supported, and at least here in Phoenix is about as common as Java is... can't speak for other metro areas. I've been a pretty big node.js fan, and haven't used C# as much the last few years, but I wouldn't count it out. Two years ago, C# wouldn't have been on my radar for a new project, now it's entirely possible, given the opportunity for better cross platform deployments.
- runT1ME 10y ago
  On top of that, Scala is a much nicer language than C#. I moved from being a C# developer to Scala and couldn't be happier. Best thing about C# is Visual Studio (IDEs are weaker in Scala land) but a bigger ecosystem and more powerful language make it for it imo.
  - aphextron 10y ago
    Could you sell me on Scala over C#?
    - runT1ME 10y ago
      Pattern Matching, Destructing, and ADTs are amazing. Inference is much better and not just for local variables. for comprehension is the equivalent of LINQ syntax which is nice, very powerful when working with asynchronous calls. Higher Kinded Types combined with implicit parameters are the two aces in the hole that make it an asbolute definitive win when heads up against C#. When I had to switch back to C# in my last job (some projects were scala, some C#) this was what I missed the omst. Combining the two gives you the 'type class pattern', which is pretty much the first time i've actually seen composition and code sharing just work without the cruft of an 'OO' like framework. http://www.cakesolutions.net/teamblogs/demystifying-implicits-and-typeclasses-in-scala http://www.cakesolutions.net/teamblogs/demystifying-implicit...

Looks like it.

Language and tooling wise? Yes, or very close to it. There's a lot to be said about the huge amount of value in the main maven repository vs. what's in nuget. Java's decade long head start in that area doesn't seem so huge when you look at what the node.js community has put together in only a few years. If you were considering .net on a new project, however, I would probably recommend comparing something like Scala. Scala has the benefits of being a "modern" language like C# with the full support of all or nearly all of the existing JVM projects. That being said, there are a growing number of reasons to choose .net on non-windows platforms.

oblio 10y ago
I'd argue that it will be a while for Nuget to catch up. When I go on Maven Central I expect every library to be cross platform except for those marked as platform dependent. For Nuget... all bets are off for now. It's the exact opposite, I assume that things are not portable or at least have not been tested on say, Linux.
rbanffy 10y ago
> Java's decade long head start in that area doesn't seem so huge when you look at what the node.js community has put together in only a few years. It's easier to follow than to blaze a path. We have learned from Java and can, hopefully, avoid those pains.

PopsiclePete 10y ago

Yeah but so what. If the "best" language always won, why isn't the entire world running on Haskell and Rust or whatever? Java's eco-system is ginormous and it's deeply entrenched as the "corporate stack" in non-MS shops, with more than 15 years of history. I'm afraid this is just too late to make a big dent. C# is nicer than Java, but not that much nicer to warrant switching over or rewriting your stuff in a very immature eco-system. Maybe they're hoping to capture some of that elusive start-up market- and mind-share? That one is already pretty hostile towards MS... Either way, this is a good thing, I just wish they had done this in 2005 or so.

simonswords82 10y ago
Microsoft's previous stewardship would never have allowed what they're doing now sadly. They must have lost years of progress with their previous strategy of locking things down. Still, better late than never - I love where they're going with .Net now.
tracker1 10y ago
I'm not entirely sure about that.. Node.js has made huge inroads in the 6-7 years it's been around, and Go is pretty popular in some circles as well. Also, look at how RoR grew. It's entirely possible we'll see a shift towards .Net away from Java as an option for lots of projects. Especially as the tooling for micro-services and docker (or similar) gain traction moving forward. C# is pretty well supported, and at least here in Phoenix is about as common as Java is... can't speak for other metro areas. I've been a pretty big node.js fan, and haven't used C# as much the last few years, but I wouldn't count it out. Two years ago, C# wouldn't have been on my radar for a new project, now it's entirely possible, given the opportunity for better cross platform deployments.
runT1ME 10y ago
On top of that, Scala is a much nicer language than C#. I moved from being a C# developer to Scala and couldn't be happier. Best thing about C# is Visual Studio (IDEs are weaker in Scala land) but a bigger ecosystem and more powerful language make it for it imo.
- aphextron 10y ago
  Could you sell me on Scala over C#?
  - runT1ME 10y ago
    Pattern Matching, Destructing, and ADTs are amazing. Inference is much better and not just for local variables. for comprehension is the equivalent of LINQ syntax which is nice, very powerful when working with asynchronous calls. Higher Kinded Types combined with implicit parameters are the two aces in the hole that make it an asbolute definitive win when heads up against C#. When I had to switch back to C# in my last job (some projects were scala, some C#) this was what I missed the omst. Combining the two gives you the 'type class pattern', which is pretty much the first time i've actually seen composition and code sharing just work without the cruft of an 'OO' like framework. http://www.cakesolutions.net/teamblogs/demystifying-implicits-and-typeclasses-in-scala http://www.cakesolutions.net/teamblogs/demystifying-implicit...