9 ms·

I set up the petition for London's independence. Here's how it would work

72 points by sirteno 10y ago

oldmanjay 10y ago
If there's one thing I've learned from this debacle, it's that in 2016, people firmly believe being an asshole is the best way to conduct politics.
- raverbashing 10y ago
  Well, it seems to be working
marcoperaza 10y ago
I have never seen so many loud sore losers after an election in my life. The globalist establishment has shown nothing but total contempt for people who don't share their world view. I hate to be the bearer of bad news[1], but you're not changing anyone's mind. Everytime I see the WaPo or the Guardian push the false narrative of Leavers all being ignorant racists that have brought doom to Britain, the more happy I am that they won, the more optimistic I am about their future. Every time you try to usurp the will of the people, they become stronger against you. The people will have their way and the British people have a track record of success. [1] Who am I kidding, I love it.
- vkou 10y ago
  > I have never seen so many loud sore losers after an election in my life. In some parts of the world, sore losers after an election start civil wars.
- zerosum 10y ago
  It has been a pleasure and a privilege watching these arrogant, morally bankrupt fatcats get their just desserts.
haakon 10y ago
It's an interesting idea to entertain, if outlandish. See http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/the-city-states-of-europe http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/the-city-states-of-europe (HN discussion at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11192948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11192948): > "The 21st century will not be dominated by America or China, Brazil or India, but by the city," writes Parag Khanna (1). The author of several books on global strategy, Khanna argues that (some) cities, as islands of good governance in an increasingly unstable world, will become the cornerstone of a new world order. > That new world order won't be a "global village" of nation states, for globalisation is corroding national sovereignty. Rather, it will be a loose network of semi-independent city states, perhaps resembling the Hanseatic League and other medieval trading alliances.
- svieira 10y ago
  This is almost the exact premise of The Napoleon of Notting Hill by G. K. Chesterton [1] It's set in 1984 (predating Orwell's use of the same date) and considers the breakup of London into city-states each based on a particular borough. It's a very short book, but well worth the read. [1]: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/20058 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/20058
throwaway987611 10y ago
> We all knew that a Brexit vote would unleash forces we didn’t understand – a series of rolling crises in high finance, macro-economics, politics and diplomacy I find things like this shocking. That most of these articles are just shooting from the hip. When Cameron first floated the idea of the Brexit. He did so, consulting all the civil servants in the country. You know, the ones who actually run the country and know exactly what needs to done should a leave vote happen. There is no scrambling around, there is no forces we don't understand, there is no crises in high finance, politics or diplomacy. This is a country that had it's own empire and had 200 civil servants to run India. I constantly laugh at postings here that Germany is going to take Finance and the Tech center from London and that the UK Economy is going to collapse. The UK did just fine outside of the europe before the EU turned into the EU. It will do FINE just outside of the EU. What a lot of people need to remember. Is what Germany is going to do now. How will it AFFORD the monies that the UK was paying. The German people are the ones who are going to foot that bill. Also, Hollande is on shaky ground. Le Penn may win and therefore will most certainly want her own Frexit vote. Merkle, is on shaky ground, she's up for re-election next year? What if she loses? Yeah, interesting times ahead. But in some respects. The UK may actually be doing better. Watch this space.
- selimthegrim 10y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/global-order-britain-survive-eu-alternative-economic-model https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/global...
- mike_hearn 10y ago
  Hollande is on way worse than shaky ground. It's hard to see how he could ever get reelected now, he may not even bother running. I've written a blog post on the upcoming votes in 2017 that could, if they go the "wrong" way, completely wreck the EU or at least radically change the negotiating outlook: https://medium.com/@octskyward/ok-what-now-e3f64d38f7 https://medium.com/@octskyward/ok-what-now-e3f64d38f7 I am finding it very entertaining how people who see themselves as cosmopolitan, worldly and intellectual so drastically fail to pay attention to what's going on elsewhere. The EU is a disaster zone. It's run by an alcoholic who has turned up to summit wasted and then literally slapped world leaders in the face. Faced with the worst blow the EU has ever faced he gave a press conference in which he answered only two questions, to the second of which he simply said "no" and then walked out. The president of the EU Parliament said he thought the UK was "holding the continent to ransom because of an internal fight in the Tory party" AFTER the vote took place. The people arguing that they need to secede from the UK in order to rejoin the EU, don't seem to have noticed that the EU is rapidly becoming a basket case that is seeing radically anti-EU politicians topping the polls in major, important economies ... whilst its leaders submerge themselves in denial.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
esharte 10y ago
If London was as smugly left wing as he the author thinks it is then it would not have voted Boris Johnson as mayor for two terms. The same Boris Johnson that was the head of the Leave campaign.
- hx87 10y ago
  London is libertarian, or old school liberal, not left-wing, and Boris Johnson did just fine as an old school liberal mayor before he started agitating for Brexit.
  - noobermin 10y ago
    At least amongst some libertarians I know in the US, Brexit is definitely favorable to them. Is it a different brand of libertarianism?
    - mariodiana 10y ago
      Too many people conflate what "globalism" (of the E.U. variety) has become with the libertarian program of open borders and free trade. The E.U. is a long march towards political unification. That's why you have libertarians who (rightly) oppose it.
    - hx87 10y ago
      It's a branch of libertarianism that believes that if laws and regulations must exist, they should be implemented at the highest possible level in order to ensure consistency and insulation from provincial arbitrariness.
      - sbmassey 10y ago
        The sort of 'libertarianism' that would advocate a world wide state than? To me that looks more like the ultimate in repression than in anything you might call liberty.
        10y ago
wrong_variable 10y ago
I think Scotland leaving would make it more likely. Scotland has a population of only 5 million people - and London will soon have double of that. Also London's economy would boast in a massive way since 97% of its income goes to Westminster unlike New York, the mayor of London needs to actively lobby for things London needs. ( this is outside the boost provided by things like staying in the EU ). Its also more practical - its far easier to secure London's borders then it is to secure all of UK's ( nothing stopping people from Spain riding up Cornwell in a boat ) Westminister could relocate to Sunderland since it would be the new heartland.
- lhnz 10y ago
  Will it matter to Scotland's goal of joining the EU after getting independence from the UK that they would have the worst deficit in the OECD [0] and have, in the past, only been a net contributor to the UK economy in three of the last fifteen years [1]? It seems to me that the EU might require Scotland to make huge cuts to public spending. Would Scotland's independence be worth more to them than say free university tuition? I guess the SNP would avoid making cuts to certain nationally loved items, but something would surely have to give; either they would get higher taxes, or public spending would have to fall. Of course, the EU might agree to let them remain and also allow them their deficit, but there looks to be an increasing strain on the EU's richest members, so who knows whether that would be allowed. [0] http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/if-scotland-had-gone-independent-today-it-would-be-facing-sado-austerity/ http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/if-scotland-had-gone-in... [1] http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/simple-summary.html http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/simple-summary.html
  - mike_hearn 10y ago
    It would be very difficult to justify letting the Scots maintain a deficit worse than Greece but without the same German-led austerity.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > Will it matter to Scotland's goal of joining the EU after getting independence from the UK that they would have the worst deficit in the developing world You probably intended to say "developed" instead of "developing", but the link actually says worst in the OECD, which is not equivalent to the developed world (though most OECD members are in the developed world, lots of the developed world is not in the OECD.)
lujim 10y ago
> I’m a smug, bourgeois liberal who lives in North London – so the result felt like a powerful rejection of my entire worldview. This sentence said just about everything I needed to know about the author. Being smug isn't a badge of honor, and describing oneself as 'smug' is as much of a red flag as a date that shows up late and describes themselves as 'A jealous person' or 'high maintenance'. They believe that they are so special and unique that annoying behavior is actually endearing. Heaven forbid something happens that shakes his worldview. Edit: Apparently it's ironic humor. This isn't the first or last time I've underestimated just how subtle British humor can be.
- infinity0 10y ago
  You're missing some context. Much of the Leave campaign has been appealing to workers by labelling more wealthy socialists as "smug superior intellectual upper-middle class Guardian readers" etc [1]. The author is just parodying that, he's not actually proud of being smug. [1] http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44970.htm http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44970.htm
- andrewingram 10y ago
  I think you may be missing an important part of how this guy communicates. Like many Brits, he's using someone else's label of himself in a semi-ironic way. He almost certainly acknowledges there's some truth to it, but doesn't wholly agree with it.
- igravious 10y ago
  If you read the piece with John Oliver's voice in your head you'll get the true intent behind the words. Tongue-in-cheek I think is the term that used to be used though it has fallen on hard times of late (possibly due to Globalist Elite agenda, hear hear!)
mike_hearn 10y ago
This is some twisted logic if I ever saw it. "Leave campaign have no plan". Yes, they do, their plan is to re-assert border controls and negotiate the best deal with the EU possible from that starting point. You may not like such a plan, but it is one. The fact that the contents of such a deal are unknown is entirely due to the fact that the EU refused to discuss or even contemplate any alternative to the status quo. If anyone was idiotic enough to actually try this idea, they'd simply hit the same problem: the EU would not talk to them, and they'd be left campaigning with no plan. So if your criticism is based on "out voters don't know what they were voting for" then well done, you'd put yourself in exactly the same boat. Moreover, the same sort of anti-EU feeling that drove Brexit is not isolated to the UK. It's rising all over Europe. What makes this guy think the EU will actually even exist five years from now, let alone be something actually desirable to be a part of? In 2017 there are four votes that could potentially damage the EU, this is coming on the heels of a vote in Austria where the "Austria first" presidential candidate lost by just a few thousand votes. https://medium.com/@octskyward/ok-what-now-e3f64d38f7 https://medium.com/@octskyward/ok-what-now-e3f64d38f7
- gutnor 10y ago
  "The Leave campaign has no plan" comes from the aftermath of the vote. There has been a serious lack of leadership from the Leave captain, and a lot of backtracking on promises. I was expecting Boris or Farage setup a great press conference telling us what they were going to do starting by requiring Cameron resignation, appointing guy X and Y, start a task force to do Z. A message for the market. Even banter like saying they would ask all the European in the UK to register somewhere, tightening the border controls, suspend the naturalisation or permanent residency demand coming from European people, ... It does not matter about the content, as you said, I would probably not have liked it or found it reasonable. But at least it looks like the guys were a bit prepared to win, that they had put some thought in at least maintaining the appearance that they would push for the stuff they promised or for something.
  - nutheracc 10y ago
    Eh? Because there isn't enough shock? Gently, gently. The idea is to avoid entirely alienating the losers.
w_t_payne 10y ago
Prior to the current wild swings in the currency markets, the price of the UK pound was always pushed up by the intensity of the economic activity in the City of London. This screwed the rest of the country over by preventing a proper devaluation of the currency; making industrial exports overly expensive, and generally destroying the competitiveness of UK industry. (Of course, the generally shit state of UK management didn't help much either). The mispriced pound killed jobs and generally contributed to the economic malaise and sense of exclusion which helped to produce the resentment which produced this referendum result. As the situation stands, the plummeting pound is going to help this a bit, but only to the extent to which the electorate have shot the financial sector in the head, and forced it to be exported to the Eurozone. As I see it, a (very very limited) form of Londipendence may be our best bet at preventing the flight of jobs and financial services revenue whilst decoupling the pound from the deleterious effects of an economy overly skewed towards London and overly skewed towards financial services. We'd get a more well-rounded economy, and we'd keep the financial services jobs and expertise in London. Far from radical, I think its' the closest thing that we've currently got to a win-win situation.
- WildUtah 10y ago
  Why would you want to keep the financial services jobs? The finance sector ruins whatever country it's located in and corrupts the local politics. The best result for England of a generally deplorable Brexit would be the complete exile of the City to the continent.
  - w_t_payne 10y ago
    Well, if you could send it into semi-exile but keep the tax receipts? Seems like something that's worth exploring, anyhow ...
- fudged71 10y ago
  FYI the "City of London" is distinct from "London" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrObZ_HZZUc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrObZ_HZZUc
anexprogrammer 10y ago
Welcome to democracy, serves you right. I'd have much preferred remain to win too. It's hurting my northern wallet too. One vote goes against him and he's throwing toys out of his pram. Perhaps he should consider that the people who mainly triggered the exit have had a powerful rejection of their worldview, by London and Westminster, since the 1980s. If the smug liberals had funded appropriate redevelopment for regions losing ship building, steel, coal or what have you, this mess could have been easily avoided. I'm surprised it took 40 years of ignoring the issue for the mice to roar.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  I would replace your use of "democracy" with "unfettered capitalism". Allowing the rich and powerful to continuously claim a larger share of the economic pie pits the rest against each other for scraps. I'm not sure the problem is those "smug liberals," but rather the conservative factions in Britain and abroad who would rather perpetuate a humanity at war with itself for their own profits rather than accept a slightly lower standard of living in return for a stable and satisfied populace which sees the greedy mismanagement of the global elite and concludes the only people they can trust are dangerous demagogues who would sooner smash a system to the ground than attempt to fix what the poor and angry perceive as poverty and hopelessness by design.

72 points by sirteno 10y ago

If there's one thing I've learned from this debacle, it's that in 2016, people firmly believe being an asshole is the best way to conduct politics.

raverbashing 10y ago
Well, it seems to be working

marcoperaza 10y ago

I have never seen so many loud sore losers after an election in my life. The globalist establishment has shown nothing but total contempt for people who don't share their world view. I hate to be the bearer of bad news[1], but you're not changing anyone's mind. Everytime I see the WaPo or the Guardian push the false narrative of Leavers all being ignorant racists that have brought doom to Britain, the more happy I am that they won, the more optimistic I am about their future. Every time you try to usurp the will of the people, they become stronger against you. The people will have their way and the British people have a track record of success. [1] Who am I kidding, I love it.

vkou 10y ago
> I have never seen so many loud sore losers after an election in my life. In some parts of the world, sore losers after an election start civil wars.
zerosum 10y ago
It has been a pleasure and a privilege watching these arrogant, morally bankrupt fatcats get their just desserts.

haakon 10y ago

It's an interesting idea to entertain, if outlandish. See http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/the-city-states-of-europe http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/the-city-states-of-europe (HN discussion at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11192948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11192948): > "The 21st century will not be dominated by America or China, Brazil or India, but by the city," writes Parag Khanna (1). The author of several books on global strategy, Khanna argues that (some) cities, as islands of good governance in an increasingly unstable world, will become the cornerstone of a new world order. > That new world order won't be a "global village" of nation states, for globalisation is corroding national sovereignty. Rather, it will be a loose network of semi-independent city states, perhaps resembling the Hanseatic League and other medieval trading alliances.

svieira 10y ago
This is almost the exact premise of The Napoleon of Notting Hill by G. K. Chesterton [1] It's set in 1984 (predating Orwell's use of the same date) and considers the breakup of London into city-states each based on a particular borough. It's a very short book, but well worth the read. [1]: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/20058 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/20058

throwaway987611 10y ago

> We all knew that a Brexit vote would unleash forces we didn’t understand – a series of rolling crises in high finance, macro-economics, politics and diplomacy I find things like this shocking. That most of these articles are just shooting from the hip. When Cameron first floated the idea of the Brexit. He did so, consulting all the civil servants in the country. You know, the ones who actually run the country and know exactly what needs to done should a leave vote happen. There is no scrambling around, there is no forces we don't understand, there is no crises in high finance, politics or diplomacy. This is a country that had it's own empire and had 200 civil servants to run India. I constantly laugh at postings here that Germany is going to take Finance and the Tech center from London and that the UK Economy is going to collapse. The UK did just fine outside of the europe before the EU turned into the EU. It will do FINE just outside of the EU. What a lot of people need to remember. Is what Germany is going to do now. How will it AFFORD the monies that the UK was paying. The German people are the ones who are going to foot that bill. Also, Hollande is on shaky ground. Le Penn may win and therefore will most certainly want her own Frexit vote. Merkle, is on shaky ground, she's up for re-election next year? What if she loses? Yeah, interesting times ahead. But in some respects. The UK may actually be doing better. Watch this space.

selimthegrim 10y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/global-order-britain-survive-eu-alternative-economic-model https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/global...
mike_hearn 10y ago
Hollande is on way worse than shaky ground. It's hard to see how he could ever get reelected now, he may not even bother running. I've written a blog post on the upcoming votes in 2017 that could, if they go the "wrong" way, completely wreck the EU or at least radically change the negotiating outlook: https://medium.com/@octskyward/ok-what-now-e3f64d38f7 https://medium.com/@octskyward/ok-what-now-e3f64d38f7 I am finding it very entertaining how people who see themselves as cosmopolitan, worldly and intellectual so drastically fail to pay attention to what's going on elsewhere. The EU is a disaster zone. It's run by an alcoholic who has turned up to summit wasted and then literally slapped world leaders in the face. Faced with the worst blow the EU has ever faced he gave a press conference in which he answered only two questions, to the second of which he simply said "no" and then walked out. The president of the EU Parliament said he thought the UK was "holding the continent to ransom because of an internal fight in the Tory party" AFTER the vote took place. The people arguing that they need to secede from the UK in order to rejoin the EU, don't seem to have noticed that the EU is rapidly becoming a basket case that is seeing radically anti-EU politicians topping the polls in major, important economies ... whilst its leaders submerge themselves in denial.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

esharte 10y ago

If London was as smugly left wing as he the author thinks it is then it would not have voted Boris Johnson as mayor for two terms. The same Boris Johnson that was the head of the Leave campaign.

hx87 10y ago
London is libertarian, or old school liberal, not left-wing, and Boris Johnson did just fine as an old school liberal mayor before he started agitating for Brexit.
- noobermin 10y ago
  At least amongst some libertarians I know in the US, Brexit is definitely favorable to them. Is it a different brand of libertarianism?
  - mariodiana 10y ago
    Too many people conflate what "globalism" (of the E.U. variety) has become with the libertarian program of open borders and free trade. The E.U. is a long march towards political unification. That's why you have libertarians who (rightly) oppose it.
  - hx87 10y ago
    It's a branch of libertarianism that believes that if laws and regulations must exist, they should be implemented at the highest possible level in order to ensure consistency and insulation from provincial arbitrariness.
    - sbmassey 10y ago
      The sort of 'libertarianism' that would advocate a world wide state than? To me that looks more like the ultimate in repression than in anything you might call liberty.
      - 10y ago

wrong_variable 10y ago

I think Scotland leaving would make it more likely. Scotland has a population of only 5 million people - and London will soon have double of that. Also London's economy would boast in a massive way since 97% of its income goes to Westminster unlike New York, the mayor of London needs to actively lobby for things London needs. ( this is outside the boost provided by things like staying in the EU ). Its also more practical - its far easier to secure London's borders then it is to secure all of UK's ( nothing stopping people from Spain riding up Cornwell in a boat ) Westminister could relocate to Sunderland since it would be the new heartland.

lhnz 10y ago
Will it matter to Scotland's goal of joining the EU after getting independence from the UK that they would have the worst deficit in the OECD [0] and have, in the past, only been a net contributor to the UK economy in three of the last fifteen years [1]? It seems to me that the EU might require Scotland to make huge cuts to public spending. Would Scotland's independence be worth more to them than say free university tuition? I guess the SNP would avoid making cuts to certain nationally loved items, but something would surely have to give; either they would get higher taxes, or public spending would have to fall. Of course, the EU might agree to let them remain and also allow them their deficit, but there looks to be an increasing strain on the EU's richest members, so who knows whether that would be allowed. [0] http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/if-scotland-had-gone-independent-today-it-would-be-facing-sado-austerity/ http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/if-scotland-had-gone-in... [1] http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/simple-summary.html http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/simple-summary.html
- mike_hearn 10y ago
  It would be very difficult to justify letting the Scots maintain a deficit worse than Greece but without the same German-led austerity.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Will it matter to Scotland's goal of joining the EU after getting independence from the UK that they would have the worst deficit in the developing world You probably intended to say "developed" instead of "developing", but the link actually says worst in the OECD, which is not equivalent to the developed world (though most OECD members are in the developed world, lots of the developed world is not in the OECD.)

lujim 10y ago

> I’m a smug, bourgeois liberal who lives in North London – so the result felt like a powerful rejection of my entire worldview. This sentence said just about everything I needed to know about the author. Being smug isn't a badge of honor, and describing oneself as 'smug' is as much of a red flag as a date that shows up late and describes themselves as 'A jealous person' or 'high maintenance'. They believe that they are so special and unique that annoying behavior is actually endearing. Heaven forbid something happens that shakes his worldview. Edit: Apparently it's ironic humor. This isn't the first or last time I've underestimated just how subtle British humor can be.

infinity0 10y ago
You're missing some context. Much of the Leave campaign has been appealing to workers by labelling more wealthy socialists as "smug superior intellectual upper-middle class Guardian readers" etc [1]. The author is just parodying that, he's not actually proud of being smug. [1] http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44970.htm http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44970.htm
andrewingram 10y ago
I think you may be missing an important part of how this guy communicates. Like many Brits, he's using someone else's label of himself in a semi-ironic way. He almost certainly acknowledges there's some truth to it, but doesn't wholly agree with it.
igravious 10y ago
If you read the piece with John Oliver's voice in your head you'll get the true intent behind the words. Tongue-in-cheek I think is the term that used to be used though it has fallen on hard times of late (possibly due to Globalist Elite agenda, hear hear!)

mike_hearn 10y ago

This is some twisted logic if I ever saw it. "Leave campaign have no plan". Yes, they do, their plan is to re-assert border controls and negotiate the best deal with the EU possible from that starting point. You may not like such a plan, but it is one. The fact that the contents of such a deal are unknown is entirely due to the fact that the EU refused to discuss or even contemplate any alternative to the status quo. If anyone was idiotic enough to actually try this idea, they'd simply hit the same problem: the EU would not talk to them, and they'd be left campaigning with no plan. So if your criticism is based on "out voters don't know what they were voting for" then well done, you'd put yourself in exactly the same boat. Moreover, the same sort of anti-EU feeling that drove Brexit is not isolated to the UK. It's rising all over Europe. What makes this guy think the EU will actually even exist five years from now, let alone be something actually desirable to be a part of? In 2017 there are four votes that could potentially damage the EU, this is coming on the heels of a vote in Austria where the "Austria first" presidential candidate lost by just a few thousand votes. https://medium.com/@octskyward/ok-what-now-e3f64d38f7 https://medium.com/@octskyward/ok-what-now-e3f64d38f7

gutnor 10y ago
"The Leave campaign has no plan" comes from the aftermath of the vote. There has been a serious lack of leadership from the Leave captain, and a lot of backtracking on promises. I was expecting Boris or Farage setup a great press conference telling us what they were going to do starting by requiring Cameron resignation, appointing guy X and Y, start a task force to do Z. A message for the market. Even banter like saying they would ask all the European in the UK to register somewhere, tightening the border controls, suspend the naturalisation or permanent residency demand coming from European people, ... It does not matter about the content, as you said, I would probably not have liked it or found it reasonable. But at least it looks like the guys were a bit prepared to win, that they had put some thought in at least maintaining the appearance that they would push for the stuff they promised or for something.
- nutheracc 10y ago
  Eh? Because there isn't enough shock? Gently, gently. The idea is to avoid entirely alienating the losers.

w_t_payne 10y ago

Prior to the current wild swings in the currency markets, the price of the UK pound was always pushed up by the intensity of the economic activity in the City of London. This screwed the rest of the country over by preventing a proper devaluation of the currency; making industrial exports overly expensive, and generally destroying the competitiveness of UK industry. (Of course, the generally shit state of UK management didn't help much either). The mispriced pound killed jobs and generally contributed to the economic malaise and sense of exclusion which helped to produce the resentment which produced this referendum result. As the situation stands, the plummeting pound is going to help this a bit, but only to the extent to which the electorate have shot the financial sector in the head, and forced it to be exported to the Eurozone. As I see it, a (very very limited) form of Londipendence may be our best bet at preventing the flight of jobs and financial services revenue whilst decoupling the pound from the deleterious effects of an economy overly skewed towards London and overly skewed towards financial services. We'd get a more well-rounded economy, and we'd keep the financial services jobs and expertise in London. Far from radical, I think its' the closest thing that we've currently got to a win-win situation.

WildUtah 10y ago
Why would you want to keep the financial services jobs? The finance sector ruins whatever country it's located in and corrupts the local politics. The best result for England of a generally deplorable Brexit would be the complete exile of the City to the continent.
- w_t_payne 10y ago
  Well, if you could send it into semi-exile but keep the tax receipts? Seems like something that's worth exploring, anyhow ...
fudged71 10y ago
FYI the "City of London" is distinct from "London" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrObZ_HZZUc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrObZ_HZZUc

anexprogrammer 10y ago

Welcome to democracy, serves you right. I'd have much preferred remain to win too. It's hurting my northern wallet too. One vote goes against him and he's throwing toys out of his pram. Perhaps he should consider that the people who mainly triggered the exit have had a powerful rejection of their worldview, by London and Westminster, since the 1980s. If the smug liberals had funded appropriate redevelopment for regions losing ship building, steel, coal or what have you, this mess could have been easily avoided. I'm surprised it took 40 years of ignoring the issue for the mice to roar.

rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
I would replace your use of "democracy" with "unfettered capitalism". Allowing the rich and powerful to continuously claim a larger share of the economic pie pits the rest against each other for scraps. I'm not sure the problem is those "smug liberals," but rather the conservative factions in Britain and abroad who would rather perpetuate a humanity at war with itself for their own profits rather than accept a slightly lower standard of living in return for a stable and satisfied populace which sees the greedy mismanagement of the global elite and concludes the only people they can trust are dangerous demagogues who would sooner smash a system to the ground than attempt to fix what the poor and angry perceive as poverty and hopelessness by design.