5 ms·

This is probably a dangerous position as a software developer, but I think we should stop calling these things upgrades. What's being shipped are changes. Wheth

This is probably a dangerous position as a software developer, but I think we should stop calling these things upgrades. What's being shipped are changes. Whether they're improvements or not is completely subjective. It seems like splitting hairs, but terminology matters. It sounds harmless when you say "Microsoft reserves the right to update your machine" but things are clearer when you say "Microsoft reserves the right to change your machine, on their own schedule", which is effectively the right they've conferred on themselves. Windows 10 (and patches) aren't upgrades, they're changes. They might be better for you, or they might be worse. Nobody should be bullied into changing their machines at a vendor's whims.

794CD01 10y ago
By that logic, there is no such thing as an upgrade. https://xkcd.com/1172/ https://xkcd.com/1172/
- Nullabillity 10y ago
  Which is exactly the point of the GP...?
  - charlesz 10y ago
    A Windows update broke Quickbooks for our entire org over the weekend. Happens more often than you would think. A few months back a Windows update broke Outlook for half our team.
cm2187 10y ago
Yeah, it's like my bank "upgrading" me to a Gold account where I will be charged more fees and receive more calls from my bank trying to sell me products...
- moskie 10y ago
  That is a crappy metaphor.
  - DKnoll3 10y ago
    Uh...how? Windows 10 advertises Microsoft products, and 3rd party products, and is the first step into being suckered into Microsoft's foray into a paid subscription OS. Sounds like a great metaphor. Let us "upgrade" you to make more money from you.
    - NamTaf 10y ago
      Because it glosses over the fact that upgrades to OSs have defined security benefits. A better one would be to say that it's like your bank upgrading your card from signature to chip + pin and issuing a new card number as a result. It's a frustration to change all your automated billing, but they do it because it's more secure and costs them less in fraud protection.
      - DKnoll3 10y ago
        Actually, that's a great example, glad you brought it up. That's not less secure, and very similar to this situation. That technology is being hailed as "more secure" because it requires you to insert, and type your secret PIN, correct? 1. In many cases, you can still use it online, just as before, without insertion+PIN. 2. Most stores will still allow you to swipe it, just as before. Some retailers aren't even allowing insertion yet, even though the hardware is there. 3. Even IF everyone required you to insert and type your PIN, you are actually less secure because the little bit you "consented to" when "upgrading" to chip + pin says that card issuers are less liable for fraudulent charges and other problems. http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/understanding-EMV-fraud-liability-shift-1271.php http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/understanding-EM... And it's still not a perfect analogy, because chip+pin isn't going to force me to subscribe to a monthly or yearly fee to use my bank card in the future, like Windows 10 assuredly will. It also doesn't implement additional technology for my bank to spy on me and my activity. So - who's really safer? The problem is that product changes are being rolled in with/disguised as security updates. That should be wrong, and while I'm normally on the side of less mandates - this misleading behavior should be addressed by lawmakers.
Bartweiss 10y ago
I think this is a legitimate distinction. Service packs are usually upgrades, as are pretty much all security patches. New versions are called that to contrast with 'updates', but calling something like release-day Windows 7 an "upgrade" is an affront to English.
jasonkostempski 10y ago
"Upgrade" seems to get used when there's a major version change and "Update" when there are minor changes. Since Windows 10 is supposedly the last version of Windows, it should be nothing but "Updates" from here on out.
andylei 10y ago
but when chrome does it, its awesome
amyjess 10y ago
I'm reminded of an article by David Pogue, who used to write the back page column in MacWorld back in the '90s. One issue, he introduced a lexicon of terms he invented that he felt the computer industry should adopt. One of them was "corrupgrade", which was defined as something billed as an upgrade but was actually worse than the old version. It's still the only one of those terms I remember, just because it's so useful.

794CD01 10y ago

By that logic, there is no such thing as an upgrade. https://xkcd.com/1172/ https://xkcd.com/1172/

Nullabillity 10y ago
Which is exactly the point of the GP...?
- charlesz 10y ago
  A Windows update broke Quickbooks for our entire org over the weekend. Happens more often than you would think. A few months back a Windows update broke Outlook for half our team.

cm2187 10y ago

Yeah, it's like my bank "upgrading" me to a Gold account where I will be charged more fees and receive more calls from my bank trying to sell me products...

moskie 10y ago
That is a crappy metaphor.
- DKnoll3 10y ago
  Uh...how? Windows 10 advertises Microsoft products, and 3rd party products, and is the first step into being suckered into Microsoft's foray into a paid subscription OS. Sounds like a great metaphor. Let us "upgrade" you to make more money from you.
  - NamTaf 10y ago
    Because it glosses over the fact that upgrades to OSs have defined security benefits. A better one would be to say that it's like your bank upgrading your card from signature to chip + pin and issuing a new card number as a result. It's a frustration to change all your automated billing, but they do it because it's more secure and costs them less in fraud protection.
    - DKnoll3 10y ago
      Actually, that's a great example, glad you brought it up. That's not less secure, and very similar to this situation. That technology is being hailed as "more secure" because it requires you to insert, and type your secret PIN, correct? 1. In many cases, you can still use it online, just as before, without insertion+PIN. 2. Most stores will still allow you to swipe it, just as before. Some retailers aren't even allowing insertion yet, even though the hardware is there. 3. Even IF everyone required you to insert and type your PIN, you are actually less secure because the little bit you "consented to" when "upgrading" to chip + pin says that card issuers are less liable for fraudulent charges and other problems. http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/understanding-EMV-fraud-liability-shift-1271.php http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/understanding-EM... And it's still not a perfect analogy, because chip+pin isn't going to force me to subscribe to a monthly or yearly fee to use my bank card in the future, like Windows 10 assuredly will. It also doesn't implement additional technology for my bank to spy on me and my activity. So - who's really safer? The problem is that product changes are being rolled in with/disguised as security updates. That should be wrong, and while I'm normally on the side of less mandates - this misleading behavior should be addressed by lawmakers.

Bartweiss 10y ago

I think this is a legitimate distinction. Service packs are usually upgrades, as are pretty much all security patches. New versions are called that to contrast with 'updates', but calling something like release-day Windows 7 an "upgrade" is an affront to English.

jasonkostempski 10y ago

"Upgrade" seems to get used when there's a major version change and "Update" when there are minor changes. Since Windows 10 is supposedly the last version of Windows, it should be nothing but "Updates" from here on out.

andylei 10y ago

but when chrome does it, its awesome

amyjess 10y ago

I'm reminded of an article by David Pogue, who used to write the back page column in MacWorld back in the '90s. One issue, he introduced a lexicon of terms he invented that he felt the computer industry should adopt. One of them was "corrupgrade", which was defined as something billed as an upgrade but was actually worse than the old version. It's still the only one of those terms I remember, just because it's so useful.