4 ms·

This seems extremist to me. The reality is that there's a huge convenience with EU benefits, especially the shared currency. The UK never got rid of the pound a

This seems extremist to me. The reality is that there's a huge convenience with EU benefits, especially the shared currency. The UK never got rid of the pound and was always a body of water away from the rest of Europe. If any member was going to leave, it makes sense that the one least interested in the EU would. I imagine the "new" EU will be Germany-centric now (considering how poorly France, Italy, and Spain are doing) and smaller countries who require German investment, products, etc will not poke the bear with leaving. A more Germanic Europe may or may not be something to worry about. I do suspect that the parts of the EU that aren't economic like its various social regulations are a major turn off and that the EU might reform into a set of economic and monetary treaties instead of this USA-style federal government. I think the EU shows the worst of European leftism and needs reform to accommodate a more diverse political spectrum. The more conservative UK couldn't stomach it any longer, and I certainly applaud their autonomy here. It seems like they were getting the least out of the deal. edit: HN won't let me reply so I'll just edit this comment: Where to start? Its all a complex mess, but EU membership means your country is now beholden to at least the following: EU Charter of Fundamental Rights European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) European Court of Justice (ECJ) The Fundamental Rights Agency (FRA) and that's on top of things like the EU's immigration policies, which was what turned the tide in the UK. edit2: to the guy who wrote "A lot of traditional issues for European left and green movements were enshrined into EU law, and there is no appetite whatsoever to abandon them." Then countries will abandon the EU just like the UK did. I also think you're purposely downplaying the huge loss of autonomy EU membership requires. Allowing a foreign court power over your citizens is a major loss of autonomy, even if you have -some- say in the process that builds that court. Its still not your court or your rules. Its all a terrible consensus of European leftism that differs from your values. Clearly, the UK voters weren't on board with European leftism. Why can't the EU promote a more diverse political spectrum than just the far left?

Asooka 10y ago
To nitpick, Republic of Ireland is an EU member and shares a land border with the UK via Northern Ireland. The question of what happens with that border once the UK leaves the EU is still unaddressed AFAIK.
arrrg 10y ago
Which social regulations are you talking about?
toyg 10y ago
> social regulations are a major turn off One man's turn-off is another man's turn-on. A lot of traditional issues for European left and green movements were enshrined into EU law, and there is no appetite whatsoever to abandon them. There are clear grievances towards the Euro asset and the (relatively recent) neoliberal bend that economic policies have taken at Union level, but nothing that can't be fixed -- especially if German governments start being a bit more cooperative. In fact, this is the real rubber between UK and most other European governments: for the UK, the Union has always been primarily about the market, whereas others embraced the federalist project with more conviction. Some of them stuck to the overall federalist projects even while rejecting the common currency, which is arguably its cornerstone. The problem for the EU is fixing its economic policies, not its social ones. > It seems like they were getting the least out of the deal. That's very ironic, considering how the UK was getting probably the best deal compared to all major countries: free trade, no Euro (which also means no oversight from ECB, despite all scaremongering to the contrary), very little net cost because of the special rebate, and a privileged position at the intersection of financial flows from Asia, US and Europe. Regardless of what departing agreement we can get, the country will never get anything as good as that. edit: The ECHR is not an EU institutions. In fact, the UK will likely remain in that no matter what. The FRA is basically an advisory body... I honestly don't know what problem you might have with the charter, unless you plan on torturing or being tortured: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_of_the_European_Union#The_text https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_... The ECJ is necessary even just as an arbitration court, so again, not sure what your grievance is.

Asooka 10y ago

To nitpick, Republic of Ireland is an EU member and shares a land border with the UK via Northern Ireland. The question of what happens with that border once the UK leaves the EU is still unaddressed AFAIK.

arrrg 10y ago

Which social regulations are you talking about?

toyg 10y ago

> social regulations are a major turn off One man's turn-off is another man's turn-on. A lot of traditional issues for European left and green movements were enshrined into EU law, and there is no appetite whatsoever to abandon them. There are clear grievances towards the Euro asset and the (relatively recent) neoliberal bend that economic policies have taken at Union level, but nothing that can't be fixed -- especially if German governments start being a bit more cooperative. In fact, this is the real rubber between UK and most other European governments: for the UK, the Union has always been primarily about the market, whereas others embraced the federalist project with more conviction. Some of them stuck to the overall federalist projects even while rejecting the common currency, which is arguably its cornerstone. The problem for the EU is fixing its economic policies, not its social ones. > It seems like they were getting the least out of the deal. That's very ironic, considering how the UK was getting probably the best deal compared to all major countries: free trade, no Euro (which also means no oversight from ECB, despite all scaremongering to the contrary), very little net cost because of the special rebate, and a privileged position at the intersection of financial flows from Asia, US and Europe. Regardless of what departing agreement we can get, the country will never get anything as good as that. edit: The ECHR is not an EU institutions. In fact, the UK will likely remain in that no matter what. The FRA is basically an advisory body... I honestly don't know what problem you might have with the charter, unless you plan on torturing or being tortured: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_of_the_European_Union#The_text https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_... The ECJ is necessary even just as an arbitration court, so again, not sure what your grievance is.