7 ms·

Was London at any point the startup capital of Europe? Maybe it was the banking capital of Europe, but that time is over now.

nailer 10y ago
In terms of funding, yes. It's also the fintech capital of the world. Regarding being the banking capital: it's been two business days. You might be jumping the gun just a little. ;-)
- robert_foss 10y ago
  I am indeed jumping the gun, but the banking industry has been known to move geographically for far fewer reasons. A striking example would be the move of the entire banking industry from Montreal to Toronto, due to the growing separatism in and around Montreal.
- onion2k 10y ago
  Regarding being the banking Ng capital: it's been two business days. You might be jumping the gun just a little. I strongly suspect the UK won't be able to continue any passporting[1] arrangements because it would greatly benefit Germany's financial sector if foreign banks had to establish a European presence to trade within the EU. That is an existential threat to London's finance industry. Obviously it depends on trade negotiations with the EU as the UK leaves, but really, what benefit is there to the EU to let it continue the way it is? Why would they want the UK to carry on as it is now? [1] https://www.eba.europa.eu/regulation-and-policy/passporting-and-supervision-of-branches https://www.eba.europa.eu/regulation-and-policy/passporting-...
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    I think the point was, it's not even clear if the UK will leave the EU. The referendum result was 52-48, with some people regretting their decision since they only meant it as a protest against the current government. Others are furious that the things they thought they voted for (money for healthcare, much reduced immigration) have already been backtraced upon by politicians. We live in interesting times. (I'm British and live in Denmark, so I have a clear bias in this.)
    - TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
      It's not clear that anyone knows what will happen. Historically the EU plays hardball with dissenters. The leavers are gambling that our trading relationships are essential to the EU - but unfortunately they really aren't. So it's unwise to expect anything too conciliatory from Brussels. What is clear is that if the UK does leave it will have spent the last forty years building up the City as the key European/World financial center, and then thrown away that advantage through the actions of a small clique of overly ambitious and utterly dishonest politicians. And if you take away the City, no one in power has any idea at all how to build a 21st century economy - never mind a 20th century economy, or even a 19th century economy. While the rest of Europe will be developing new startups, England will be playing with its union jack and wondering if maybe it should build a big navy again.
  - krona 10y ago
    MiFID 2 will make most of this talk about passporting a side show during the renegotiation. The EU FFT is a prime example of why finance in Frankfurt or Paris is unlikely to be in a position to compete with London, NY, Hong Kong, or Singapore. An indication of this will be on July 4, when LSE votes on the Deutsche Boerse merger.
    - onion2k 10y ago
      If there were more financial institutions with their headquarters within Europe I suspect the EU would be a bit less enthusiastic about FTT.
- rayiner 10y ago
  > Regarding being the banking Ng capital: it's been two business days. You might be jumping the gun just a little. ;-) Not only is it jumping the gun, it's an absurd proposition. London is the world's top financial center. It has been for the better part of two centuries (sometimes jockeying for the top spot with New York). Nowhere else in the EU comes close.
- lhnz 10y ago
  Marginal Revolution had an interesting discussion on the possibility of Finance leaving London [0]. Reading the discussion it seems like there's no real obvious choice for a European city which might end up owning Finance in the way London has. After all London earned its status as financial capital a long time before the EU was created and has a long history supporting this industry. The legal system and services that formed around it are unlikely to be able to be easily transplanted, so despite other cities wanting to offer themselves as substitutes it's not Banks could move without losing some economies of scale. This is of course assuming that our government attempts to negotiate for us to stay in the 'single market' and that the finance industry itself lobbies for Europe to play ball and keep business as usual. Of course, it is possible that we could see some decentralisation, which could weaken Europe's banking industry in relation to the US. [0] http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/06/which-european-financial-centre-would-win-at-londons-expense.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/06/whi...
sandworm101 10y ago
>> Was London at any point the startup capital of Europe? Yes. On paper, London was home to countless new companies funded by billions of dollars. The fact that those companies were asset tools, ghosts incapable of producing anything beyond tax advantages, doesn't take away from their definition as "startups".
bertil 10y ago
> Was London at any point the startup capital of Europe? Yes, very much so. I am an experienced Data scientists, and I looked around Europe for the last four years, needing a new job every three to six months, and London consistently had the top 5 best offers, be it in quality of the project, money raised, size of the db, etc. The conferences have been consistently larger, better and more relevant here than in Paris, Stockholm, Helsinki. The Meet-ups everywhere were good, but you have usually 5 people who are familiar with your specific implementation at most, 10 more considering it; in London, you have three to ten times that many people. I have not tried working in Berlin yet, but all signs seem positive, and life is much cheaper there.
- branchless 10y ago
  Life is cheaper there because Germany hasn't (yet) invited the parasitic banking sector into the nest.
  - germanier 10y ago
    The banking sector would certainly move to Frankfurt and not Berlin.
    - branchless 10y ago
      I meant inside Germany. Will they let them in to hollow out their economy via rentier activity, giving the initial "wealth effect" via high land prices or are the Germans smart enough to know to steer clear? Will the banks move from a country where they have totally captured the government and legal system? Will Germany guarantee no prosecutions for financial crimes like the UK tacitly did?
Stephen_C 10y ago
Is there a European startup capital at all? As for London's time as banking capital of Europe being over - at this stage all anyone knows for sure is that a "small" majority of the UK voting public voted indidacated they would like the UK to leave the current EU - that's it. And at this early stage absolutely none of the UK or EU governing bodies or institutions currently know how this leaving process is going to be implemented or end - if it even starts.
EnderMB 10y ago
From a UK perspective, we've largely thrown our eggs into one basket with London. It's the financial capital, but it's also the best place to work if you're involved in design, programming, recruitment, law, etc. With so much going on in London, it's only natural that you set up shop there if you want to play in the big leagues, or to move to London when you reach a certain size and want to work with the big players. I imagine funding also plays a huge part in the startup scene in London too. It's where the money is, after all. Purely anecdotal, but London is regularly referred to as the FinTech capital of Europe, and it often seems to be because London doesn't have a lot of startup success stories to boast about. For me, the startup buzz in the UK tends to be smaller outfits away from London, either close to top universities (Oxbridge) or in larger cities with an existing digital culture (Bristol, Manchester). Again, purely anecdotal, but I know a few people that have moved from London to Berlin, and they couldn't be happier.
erikb 10y ago
Also curious about that. A few years ago (maybe 2011) another article also stated that Berlin now (=2011) wins against London as the new startup capital. As a Berliner one remembers that.

nailer 10y ago

In terms of funding, yes. It's also the fintech capital of the world. Regarding being the banking capital: it's been two business days. You might be jumping the gun just a little. ;-)

robert_foss 10y ago
I am indeed jumping the gun, but the banking industry has been known to move geographically for far fewer reasons. A striking example would be the move of the entire banking industry from Montreal to Toronto, due to the growing separatism in and around Montreal.
onion2k 10y ago
Regarding being the banking Ng capital: it's been two business days. You might be jumping the gun just a little. I strongly suspect the UK won't be able to continue any passporting[1] arrangements because it would greatly benefit Germany's financial sector if foreign banks had to establish a European presence to trade within the EU. That is an existential threat to London's finance industry. Obviously it depends on trade negotiations with the EU as the UK leaves, but really, what benefit is there to the EU to let it continue the way it is? Why would they want the UK to carry on as it is now? [1] https://www.eba.europa.eu/regulation-and-policy/passporting-and-supervision-of-branches https://www.eba.europa.eu/regulation-and-policy/passporting-...
- Symbiote 10y ago
  I think the point was, it's not even clear if the UK will leave the EU. The referendum result was 52-48, with some people regretting their decision since they only meant it as a protest against the current government. Others are furious that the things they thought they voted for (money for healthcare, much reduced immigration) have already been backtraced upon by politicians. We live in interesting times. (I'm British and live in Denmark, so I have a clear bias in this.)
  - TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
    It's not clear that anyone knows what will happen. Historically the EU plays hardball with dissenters. The leavers are gambling that our trading relationships are essential to the EU - but unfortunately they really aren't. So it's unwise to expect anything too conciliatory from Brussels. What is clear is that if the UK does leave it will have spent the last forty years building up the City as the key European/World financial center, and then thrown away that advantage through the actions of a small clique of overly ambitious and utterly dishonest politicians. And if you take away the City, no one in power has any idea at all how to build a 21st century economy - never mind a 20th century economy, or even a 19th century economy. While the rest of Europe will be developing new startups, England will be playing with its union jack and wondering if maybe it should build a big navy again.
- krona 10y ago
  MiFID 2 will make most of this talk about passporting a side show during the renegotiation. The EU FFT is a prime example of why finance in Frankfurt or Paris is unlikely to be in a position to compete with London, NY, Hong Kong, or Singapore. An indication of this will be on July 4, when LSE votes on the Deutsche Boerse merger.
  - onion2k 10y ago
    If there were more financial institutions with their headquarters within Europe I suspect the EU would be a bit less enthusiastic about FTT.
rayiner 10y ago
> Regarding being the banking Ng capital: it's been two business days. You might be jumping the gun just a little. ;-) Not only is it jumping the gun, it's an absurd proposition. London is the world's top financial center. It has been for the better part of two centuries (sometimes jockeying for the top spot with New York). Nowhere else in the EU comes close.
lhnz 10y ago
Marginal Revolution had an interesting discussion on the possibility of Finance leaving London [0]. Reading the discussion it seems like there's no real obvious choice for a European city which might end up owning Finance in the way London has. After all London earned its status as financial capital a long time before the EU was created and has a long history supporting this industry. The legal system and services that formed around it are unlikely to be able to be easily transplanted, so despite other cities wanting to offer themselves as substitutes it's not Banks could move without losing some economies of scale. This is of course assuming that our government attempts to negotiate for us to stay in the 'single market' and that the finance industry itself lobbies for Europe to play ball and keep business as usual. Of course, it is possible that we could see some decentralisation, which could weaken Europe's banking industry in relation to the US. [0] http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/06/which-european-financial-centre-would-win-at-londons-expense.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/06/whi...

sandworm101 10y ago

>> Was London at any point the startup capital of Europe? Yes. On paper, London was home to countless new companies funded by billions of dollars. The fact that those companies were asset tools, ghosts incapable of producing anything beyond tax advantages, doesn't take away from their definition as "startups".

bertil 10y ago

> Was London at any point the startup capital of Europe? Yes, very much so. I am an experienced Data scientists, and I looked around Europe for the last four years, needing a new job every three to six months, and London consistently had the top 5 best offers, be it in quality of the project, money raised, size of the db, etc. The conferences have been consistently larger, better and more relevant here than in Paris, Stockholm, Helsinki. The Meet-ups everywhere were good, but you have usually 5 people who are familiar with your specific implementation at most, 10 more considering it; in London, you have three to ten times that many people. I have not tried working in Berlin yet, but all signs seem positive, and life is much cheaper there.

branchless 10y ago
Life is cheaper there because Germany hasn't (yet) invited the parasitic banking sector into the nest.
- germanier 10y ago
  The banking sector would certainly move to Frankfurt and not Berlin.
  - branchless 10y ago
    I meant inside Germany. Will they let them in to hollow out their economy via rentier activity, giving the initial "wealth effect" via high land prices or are the Germans smart enough to know to steer clear? Will the banks move from a country where they have totally captured the government and legal system? Will Germany guarantee no prosecutions for financial crimes like the UK tacitly did?

Stephen_C 10y ago

Is there a European startup capital at all? As for London's time as banking capital of Europe being over - at this stage all anyone knows for sure is that a "small" majority of the UK voting public voted indidacated they would like the UK to leave the current EU - that's it. And at this early stage absolutely none of the UK or EU governing bodies or institutions currently know how this leaving process is going to be implemented or end - if it even starts.

EnderMB 10y ago

From a UK perspective, we've largely thrown our eggs into one basket with London. It's the financial capital, but it's also the best place to work if you're involved in design, programming, recruitment, law, etc. With so much going on in London, it's only natural that you set up shop there if you want to play in the big leagues, or to move to London when you reach a certain size and want to work with the big players. I imagine funding also plays a huge part in the startup scene in London too. It's where the money is, after all. Purely anecdotal, but London is regularly referred to as the FinTech capital of Europe, and it often seems to be because London doesn't have a lot of startup success stories to boast about. For me, the startup buzz in the UK tends to be smaller outfits away from London, either close to top universities (Oxbridge) or in larger cities with an existing digital culture (Bristol, Manchester). Again, purely anecdotal, but I know a few people that have moved from London to Berlin, and they couldn't be happier.

erikb 10y ago

Also curious about that. A few years ago (maybe 2011) another article also stated that Berlin now (=2011) wins against London as the new startup capital. As a Berliner one remembers that.