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Show HN: Art as a Service: F(x) → [Object Art]

24 points by SuperPaintMan 10y ago

SuperPaintMan 10y ago
Creator here, this project stemmed Go Interfaces, #TAKEMEANYWHERE (LaBeouf and company) and there was no existing tool like BlackBox. I created BlackBox for the sake of composing, what will you do with these tool in your box? I feel it's more coherent then jodi.org, but just barely. [edit: spelling]
- mpnordland 10y ago
  Serious question: What do you define art to be? I've taken some introductory Art class, but really never got a clear answer of what art is. How does art differ from kitsch?
  - abathur 10y ago
    Both art and kitsch are emergent judgements that result from how people practice aesthetics and creativity at scale. It's a fair question to ask individuals as long as you're more interested in what they think about art than hoping for a definitive answer that will somehow resolve millennia of contentious debate, but individual definitions are beside the point. That said, I've been toying with a definition recently, that "art is something that should be considered more deeply." I like this definition because it foregrounds (instead of trying to dodge) the various agencies and tensions involved.
  - SuperPaintMan 10y ago
    That's a tricky question because of subjectivity and the shift towards a postmodern lens. The question what is Art becomes entirely dependant on the viewer/creator. For me Art is the act of expression. To poets, the reading. To painters, painting. To hackers, hacking. The object is simply a object left over documenting the process (although utmost attention is provided to the object during the act). Kitsch I would define as engaging that creation mechanism with substandard intent. Maybe to copy a photograph with paint, or just muck about on a canvas because there is an hour to kill. When the focus is the documentation, it becomes programming for programmings sake, and loses the artistic merit. At least, through my eyes.
- plcancel 10y ago
  It seems more like a project to explore the philosophy of tech. What's in the box? Edit: Perhaps the box is the art and the outputs are commentary on Art as a Commodity?
  - SuperPaintMan 10y ago
    If anything, the personality is a commentary on the philosophy of tech. What scars has dealing with large amounts of textual/image data left on you as a functional human? Where does the machine end and the human begin. Is there a grey area where both bend towards each other? Have these machines formalized myself? I am creating humanistic sincere programs? What's in the box? That's an entire lives work of questions, flesh blood and tabstop=2?
vageli 10y ago
Looks like it got hugged to death :(
- mpnordland 10y ago
  I got in to see it, basically you dump some string of text to this api with your api keys and how much you want to pay for the painting and then once the artist confirms that you want to buy the painting they make it and presumably ship it to you.
  - SuperPaintMan 10y ago
    It's back up now, billing got switched about somehow. GAE quota usage is showing green across the board, but it's still 503'ing on me. Appears to be intermittent, just keep trying I'm monkeying about over here. Text, Images, Resources, Whatever. It's a wrapper for turning arbitrary ideas/messages/fragments/code/etc into oil paints. The works are shipped out after drying to any specifications.
- abathur 10y ago
  For the benefit of those who see the article but can't reach the site, I think one of the interesting parts of the project is the artist's statement about how the idea was sparked by interacting with friends in technical fields who don't have any art on their walls and are sort of caught between not wanting to buy cheap prints or posters and a lack of comfort/vocabulary for obtaining better art. So, the artist is making an API where your role as the requester is in providing data that the artist will use as inspiration to create and send an oil painting within your budget.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
SuperPaintMan 10y ago
[edit: we should be back up now, please comment on further errors]
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
MrBra 10y ago
Can someone explain what is this and what it does? Non native English speaker here who found the introductory lines on the website very confusing.
- SuperPaintMan 10y ago
  Sorry MrBra, poetics don't usually translate very well. I'm trying gauging if there is a market for Artworks from a Engineering perspective. It's near and dear to me, but the money just doesn't seem there, support the Arts and all that. The project is trying to create meaningful Art (paintings) for a technical minded audience. To do this we expose an API for submissions and have a simple web flow for submissions. The content of these submissions is arbitrary, I use them like one would use posters in a collage[1]. As fragments of the whole. There are no examples of my work, nor will there be. It's up to you to jump in. For that, we have the docs. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collage [edit: docs]
  - MrBra 10y ago
    The whole website experience is frustrating. Are those painting being returned as a digital work or are you talking about actual paintings? I am trying with Get Started, it is supposed to teach me how to start using the API, I'm presented with only a choice "Oil Paintings". If I click on it, I am then presented a form which asks me to input "some text", upload some images, and type in "some links". I then go on clicking, thinking that this is just an example of a subset of the API. Instead I am presented with a price indicator slider. I guess the sense of it is "tell me how much you want to pay" but I have seen no example of what the API does and honestly at that point I stopped investigating because I am not interested anymore. This must not have been the part of the website I was looking for. I go back and see "programmable art". I am not sure again. If the works are being done by a machine using functional programming (where given a parameter the result is the same) why there can't be no examples??? Then my eyes are caught by "Handcrafted Artisanal Emoji", again it's confusing if this stuff is man-made or machine-made and it just feels this has been shoved in the page just as a different fallback product. Everything really seems unconnected and there is not one clear direction. Also, you might be the next Victor Hugo, but today you are not that or are not yet known by that, so simply saying "hey trust me, you will like this" it is not enough.
archycockroach 10y ago
I've been mulling on this for a day now. I have some concerns. I am not trying to be rude by asking this, but I think it bears consideration: Do you think that exposing an API to your practice is the means by which "technical people" can access art? Do you think it is the only means? You make some claims about the "divide" between art and engineering. By inserting yourself as a mediator between these two fields, do you think you are reconciling these worlds? Because to me it seems like you are capitalizing on this difference instead of actually attempting to stitch the rift together. By manipulating liminal markets, you are closely mimicking the behavior of tech startups. Is this in the interest of your art, or just your practice?
- SuperPaintMan 10y ago
  This process has been helping me define the project, that's for sure. By being an API I would say there needs to be a amount of technical competence, or at least knowledge of how to communicate using it. But communication through an API lends itself to a differing language and conversation. The context and nature of the materials is of log files, and that's my prime concern. Nowhere near the only means of access, there is no divide between technical and non-technical ceramicists. This is just a weird tool in a toolbox, an access method of many. I'd actually love to see what a ceramicist would do around a similar model. I'm not reconciling any divides, if anything I'm drawing a arbitrary line in the sand when high tide is approaching. Inflammatory at best. What I do know is collage using textbooks, Model M keycaps, square bracket forms and pornography is fun and holds meaning. My engineering colleagues can understand the underlying language more clearly. Where does that come from? But there is a different logging mechanism in the world now that just makes the question `createArt(arg1, arg2) painting` exist, it's an option over doing it yourself but you're the curator. My friends work with IoT devices and collect some fun data, now they can pass it off to me pragmatically. A few years of HN got to me. But it is modelled after other SASS startups, the model works and I don't have to invent the infrastructure, that's what other services are for (boxes all the way down). But BlackBox is a service, and operates as such. I'm undecided on if this a credit to the work, but it damn well is a property. It's not the first time I've reached for a similar method of expression though. A few years back I created http://projectexas.appspot.com http://projectexas.appspot.com (oh god it's a broken mess) just to showcase/contrast that data. Perhaps this is a extension of that mindset? Thank you for pointing that out, I had not actively noticed! But is it viable? That act of capitalization funds the whole show after all. Operating entirely in the interest of sustaining the practice and possibly finding a market. That's a comment on startup/capitalist culture if I've ever seen one. A few projects have had publicly available APIs [1], but I'm not sure something like this exists. Seriously though, try asking someone overtly to send you logs/resources, It's kind of hard. I really just want some newspaper clippings and posters from the insides of servers. I really want to be called, to be a funnel for curated data another side effect of a giant mechanism. And if you're reading on Hacker News, there's a good chance you can understand that desire. And I want to talk to you via walls. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Feel_Fine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Feel_Fine

24 points by SuperPaintMan 10y ago

Creator here, this project stemmed Go Interfaces, #TAKEMEANYWHERE (LaBeouf and company) and there was no existing tool like BlackBox. I created BlackBox for the sake of composing, what will you do with these tool in your box? I feel it's more coherent then jodi.org, but just barely. [edit: spelling]

mpnordland 10y ago
Serious question: What do you define art to be? I've taken some introductory Art class, but really never got a clear answer of what art is. How does art differ from kitsch?
- abathur 10y ago
  Both art and kitsch are emergent judgements that result from how people practice aesthetics and creativity at scale. It's a fair question to ask individuals as long as you're more interested in what they think about art than hoping for a definitive answer that will somehow resolve millennia of contentious debate, but individual definitions are beside the point. That said, I've been toying with a definition recently, that "art is something that should be considered more deeply." I like this definition because it foregrounds (instead of trying to dodge) the various agencies and tensions involved.
- SuperPaintMan 10y ago
  That's a tricky question because of subjectivity and the shift towards a postmodern lens. The question what is Art becomes entirely dependant on the viewer/creator. For me Art is the act of expression. To poets, the reading. To painters, painting. To hackers, hacking. The object is simply a object left over documenting the process (although utmost attention is provided to the object during the act). Kitsch I would define as engaging that creation mechanism with substandard intent. Maybe to copy a photograph with paint, or just muck about on a canvas because there is an hour to kill. When the focus is the documentation, it becomes programming for programmings sake, and loses the artistic merit. At least, through my eyes.
plcancel 10y ago
It seems more like a project to explore the philosophy of tech. What's in the box? Edit: Perhaps the box is the art and the outputs are commentary on Art as a Commodity?
- SuperPaintMan 10y ago
  If anything, the personality is a commentary on the philosophy of tech. What scars has dealing with large amounts of textual/image data left on you as a functional human? Where does the machine end and the human begin. Is there a grey area where both bend towards each other? Have these machines formalized myself? I am creating humanistic sincere programs? What's in the box? That's an entire lives work of questions, flesh blood and tabstop=2?

vageli 10y ago

Looks like it got hugged to death :(

mpnordland 10y ago
I got in to see it, basically you dump some string of text to this api with your api keys and how much you want to pay for the painting and then once the artist confirms that you want to buy the painting they make it and presumably ship it to you.
- SuperPaintMan 10y ago
  It's back up now, billing got switched about somehow. GAE quota usage is showing green across the board, but it's still 503'ing on me. Appears to be intermittent, just keep trying I'm monkeying about over here. Text, Images, Resources, Whatever. It's a wrapper for turning arbitrary ideas/messages/fragments/code/etc into oil paints. The works are shipped out after drying to any specifications.
abathur 10y ago
For the benefit of those who see the article but can't reach the site, I think one of the interesting parts of the project is the artist's statement about how the idea was sparked by interacting with friends in technical fields who don't have any art on their walls and are sort of caught between not wanting to buy cheap prints or posters and a lack of comfort/vocabulary for obtaining better art. So, the artist is making an API where your role as the requester is in providing data that the artist will use as inspiration to create and send an oil painting within your budget.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

SuperPaintMan 10y ago

[edit: we should be back up now, please comment on further errors]

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

MrBra 10y ago

Can someone explain what is this and what it does? Non native English speaker here who found the introductory lines on the website very confusing.

SuperPaintMan 10y ago
Sorry MrBra, poetics don't usually translate very well. I'm trying gauging if there is a market for Artworks from a Engineering perspective. It's near and dear to me, but the money just doesn't seem there, support the Arts and all that. The project is trying to create meaningful Art (paintings) for a technical minded audience. To do this we expose an API for submissions and have a simple web flow for submissions. The content of these submissions is arbitrary, I use them like one would use posters in a collage[1]. As fragments of the whole. There are no examples of my work, nor will there be. It's up to you to jump in. For that, we have the docs. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collage [edit: docs]
- MrBra 10y ago
  The whole website experience is frustrating. Are those painting being returned as a digital work or are you talking about actual paintings? I am trying with Get Started, it is supposed to teach me how to start using the API, I'm presented with only a choice "Oil Paintings". If I click on it, I am then presented a form which asks me to input "some text", upload some images, and type in "some links". I then go on clicking, thinking that this is just an example of a subset of the API. Instead I am presented with a price indicator slider. I guess the sense of it is "tell me how much you want to pay" but I have seen no example of what the API does and honestly at that point I stopped investigating because I am not interested anymore. This must not have been the part of the website I was looking for. I go back and see "programmable art". I am not sure again. If the works are being done by a machine using functional programming (where given a parameter the result is the same) why there can't be no examples??? Then my eyes are caught by "Handcrafted Artisanal Emoji", again it's confusing if this stuff is man-made or machine-made and it just feels this has been shoved in the page just as a different fallback product. Everything really seems unconnected and there is not one clear direction. Also, you might be the next Victor Hugo, but today you are not that or are not yet known by that, so simply saying "hey trust me, you will like this" it is not enough.

archycockroach 10y ago

I've been mulling on this for a day now. I have some concerns. I am not trying to be rude by asking this, but I think it bears consideration: Do you think that exposing an API to your practice is the means by which "technical people" can access art? Do you think it is the only means? You make some claims about the "divide" between art and engineering. By inserting yourself as a mediator between these two fields, do you think you are reconciling these worlds? Because to me it seems like you are capitalizing on this difference instead of actually attempting to stitch the rift together. By manipulating liminal markets, you are closely mimicking the behavior of tech startups. Is this in the interest of your art, or just your practice?

SuperPaintMan 10y ago
This process has been helping me define the project, that's for sure. By being an API I would say there needs to be a amount of technical competence, or at least knowledge of how to communicate using it. But communication through an API lends itself to a differing language and conversation. The context and nature of the materials is of log files, and that's my prime concern. Nowhere near the only means of access, there is no divide between technical and non-technical ceramicists. This is just a weird tool in a toolbox, an access method of many. I'd actually love to see what a ceramicist would do around a similar model. I'm not reconciling any divides, if anything I'm drawing a arbitrary line in the sand when high tide is approaching. Inflammatory at best. What I do know is collage using textbooks, Model M keycaps, square bracket forms and pornography is fun and holds meaning. My engineering colleagues can understand the underlying language more clearly. Where does that come from? But there is a different logging mechanism in the world now that just makes the question `createArt(arg1, arg2) painting` exist, it's an option over doing it yourself but you're the curator. My friends work with IoT devices and collect some fun data, now they can pass it off to me pragmatically. A few years of HN got to me. But it is modelled after other SASS startups, the model works and I don't have to invent the infrastructure, that's what other services are for (boxes all the way down). But BlackBox is a service, and operates as such. I'm undecided on if this a credit to the work, but it damn well is a property. It's not the first time I've reached for a similar method of expression though. A few years back I created http://projectexas.appspot.com http://projectexas.appspot.com (oh god it's a broken mess) just to showcase/contrast that data. Perhaps this is a extension of that mindset? Thank you for pointing that out, I had not actively noticed! But is it viable? That act of capitalization funds the whole show after all. Operating entirely in the interest of sustaining the practice and possibly finding a market. That's a comment on startup/capitalist culture if I've ever seen one. A few projects have had publicly available APIs [1], but I'm not sure something like this exists. Seriously though, try asking someone overtly to send you logs/resources, It's kind of hard. I really just want some newspaper clippings and posters from the insides of servers. I really want to be called, to be a funnel for curated data another side effect of a giant mechanism. And if you're reading on Hacker News, there's a good chance you can understand that desire. And I want to talk to you via walls. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Feel_Fine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Feel_Fine