4 ms·

This is disturbing despite it being "optional", because it's a place for border agents to push in the entry interview. "I noticed you didn't fill out the quest

by ipsin 10y ago

This is disturbing despite it being "optional", because it's a place for border agents to push in the entry interview. "I noticed you didn't fill out the question regarding online identity. Do you have an online identity?" Sure, you can (and should) tell the agent that's all personal information, but that may also lead to further hassles and delays.

e40 10y ago
Just like you can opt out of the body scan, which induces them to yell, in front of everyone, "OPT OUT!" and then you get to stand in a little roped off area and wait for a while. So, I agree, they'll make it as painful as possible to decline.
- Someone1234 10y ago
  Opt out may not be an option[0]. Even though the scanners don't work[1]. [0] http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/23/travel/tsa-airport-screening-change/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/23/travel/tsa-airport-screening-c... [1] http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/airport-security-price-for-tsa-failed-body-scanners-160-million-121385 http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/airport-security-price...
  - cheald 10y ago
    "Pat-downs may not find weapons, so an officer will pat you down after the scanner says they should." Airtight logic there.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- marssaxman 10y ago
  The funny part about this "painful" experience is that the TSA has effectively sewn a crisp, clean, machine-embroidered "KICK ME" placard onto the backs of their own uniforms. They're such a blatantly incompetent pack of busybodies that it's actually become fun to mess with them by accepting their repeated invitation to gum up the works by opting out. -- All I have to do is stand here and grin, while you lot stumble around slowing yourselves down and tripping over your own feet? Sign me up! More seriously, it's also the only form of civil disobedience I can think of so far that has any shot at ending this farce; if more of us opted out more of the time, the system would become unworkable, and it would have to change.
  - mikestew 10y ago
    if more of us opted out more of the time, the system would become unworkable, and it would have to change. You're saying it's workable now? While you and I are standing over there waiting for our groping, feeling smug about how we're sticking it to the man with our civil disobedience, the lines continue to back further and further out because they cut the number of agents. We're not sticking it to the man when the man himself is over there with a much bigger stick than we'll ever carry. I still opt out, though.
    - marssaxman 10y ago
      Well, what else have we got? "Make it expensive" seems to be the only tool that works in this case, since they don't seem to actually care what we think about any of this.
      - jacquesm 10y ago
        If enough people do it they will simply remove the option to opt out.
        marssaxman 10y ago
        At least that would be honest.
buro9 10y ago
You also shouldn't say that you don't, if you have... as this would be "fraud to gain access to the USA" which is a good way to never gain access to the USA. Therein lies a problem, just what is a social media account? Is it Facebook and Twitter? Or does it extend to networks like LinkedIn? Or forums like Hacker News? Do you have a Facebook account, if you believe that it has been deleted but you also suspect that technically Facebook never deletes? Is using a dating site a social media account given that you can converse on it, swap images, etc? No? Define how Tinder or Grindr differs from Snapchat or Yik Yak... and how you'd justify the difference to US Customs. Basically... it looks to me like either: 1. You refuse to answer and that is a red flag. 2. You lie and that is a reason to refuse entry. 3. You offer up the bare minimum and it can be construed as some combination of 1. and 2. 4. You offer up everything, and you have totally given up far more than what is revealed by just having a Facebook or Twitter account. The question, whilst appearing simple and clear, is incredibly vague and a minefield for anyone trying to answer it. I'm reminded of the quote from the film War Games, "The only way to win is not to play.". If travelling to the USA is part of your life, perhaps it's time to close social media accounts and just call the people you want to talk to.
- SixSigma 10y ago
  Plus: I have a MySpace account but no idea what the username is, likewise Habbo Hotel. What about any website with a forum facility? My Web browser remembers all the one off usernames I make up for sites and the Recover Password feature acts as my gatekeeper.
- buovjaga 10y ago
  Social media is a more general concept compared to social networks. Even IRC can be interpreted to be social media.
KKKKkkkk1 10y ago
If you're a nonresident, the CBP officer has full discretion whether to let you in or not, and you have no right of appeal. So when the officer asks you a question, answering it is not really optional.
- Someone1234 10y ago
  True. But it will be LISTED as optional on the form. If you get an interviewed by the thugs at the border it will definitely be non-optional for all intents and purposes. The whole thing is messed up either way. They'll no doubt just start asking you to log into your social media accounts so they can go through your personal shit, I've had US border agents go through my phone and ask me idiotic questions about the photos on it (all family vacation photos). Entering the US or UK is a pretty terrible experience all around. They're rude for no reason (and it has nothing to do with their job), overly invasion, and their entire justification is based on their own gut rather than fact (inc. ten year bans). PS - I have never been rejected at any border. Just been hassled a few times.
sandworm101 10y ago
What about those many of us who do not have facebook or twitter profiles? Are we now to be red-flagged as suspicious. Perhaps this is just a marketing stunt, an attempt to force more people onto US social media platforms.
kafkaesq 10y ago
I noticed you didn't fill out the question regarding online identity. Do you have an online identity?" And the punchline? Making "materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representations" to federal officials to questions like these can (per 18 U.S.C. § 1001) -- and the way things are going in this country, soon enough most likely will be used obtain felony convictions plus jail time against those so audaciously naive as to believe... this sort thing could never happen here: Making false statements (18 U.S.C. § 1001) is the common name for the United States federal crime laid out in Section 1001 of Title 18 of the United States Code, which generally prohibits knowingly and willfully making false or fraudulent statements, or concealing information, in "any matter within the jurisdiction" of the federal government of the United States, even by mere denial. A number of notable people have been convicted under the section, including Martha Stewart, Rod Blagojevich, Scooter Libby, Bernard Madoff, and Jeffrey Skilling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements

by ipsin 10y ago

e40 10y ago

Just like you can opt out of the body scan, which induces them to yell, in front of everyone, "OPT OUT!" and then you get to stand in a little roped off area and wait for a while. So, I agree, they'll make it as painful as possible to decline.

Someone1234 10y ago
Opt out may not be an option[0]. Even though the scanners don't work[1]. [0] http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/23/travel/tsa-airport-screening-change/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/23/travel/tsa-airport-screening-c... [1] http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/airport-security-price-for-tsa-failed-body-scanners-160-million-121385 http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/airport-security-price...
- cheald 10y ago
  "Pat-downs may not find weapons, so an officer will pat you down after the scanner says they should." Airtight logic there.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
marssaxman 10y ago
The funny part about this "painful" experience is that the TSA has effectively sewn a crisp, clean, machine-embroidered "KICK ME" placard onto the backs of their own uniforms. They're such a blatantly incompetent pack of busybodies that it's actually become fun to mess with them by accepting their repeated invitation to gum up the works by opting out. -- All I have to do is stand here and grin, while you lot stumble around slowing yourselves down and tripping over your own feet? Sign me up! More seriously, it's also the only form of civil disobedience I can think of so far that has any shot at ending this farce; if more of us opted out more of the time, the system would become unworkable, and it would have to change.
- mikestew 10y ago
  if more of us opted out more of the time, the system would become unworkable, and it would have to change. You're saying it's workable now? While you and I are standing over there waiting for our groping, feeling smug about how we're sticking it to the man with our civil disobedience, the lines continue to back further and further out because they cut the number of agents. We're not sticking it to the man when the man himself is over there with a much bigger stick than we'll ever carry. I still opt out, though.
  - marssaxman 10y ago
    Well, what else have we got? "Make it expensive" seems to be the only tool that works in this case, since they don't seem to actually care what we think about any of this.
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      If enough people do it they will simply remove the option to opt out.
      - marssaxman 10y ago
        At least that would be honest.

buro9 10y ago

You also shouldn't say that you don't, if you have... as this would be "fraud to gain access to the USA" which is a good way to never gain access to the USA. Therein lies a problem, just what is a social media account? Is it Facebook and Twitter? Or does it extend to networks like LinkedIn? Or forums like Hacker News? Do you have a Facebook account, if you believe that it has been deleted but you also suspect that technically Facebook never deletes? Is using a dating site a social media account given that you can converse on it, swap images, etc? No? Define how Tinder or Grindr differs from Snapchat or Yik Yak... and how you'd justify the difference to US Customs. Basically... it looks to me like either: 1. You refuse to answer and that is a red flag. 2. You lie and that is a reason to refuse entry. 3. You offer up the bare minimum and it can be construed as some combination of 1. and 2. 4. You offer up everything, and you have totally given up far more than what is revealed by just having a Facebook or Twitter account. The question, whilst appearing simple and clear, is incredibly vague and a minefield for anyone trying to answer it. I'm reminded of the quote from the film War Games, "The only way to win is not to play.". If travelling to the USA is part of your life, perhaps it's time to close social media accounts and just call the people you want to talk to.

SixSigma 10y ago
Plus: I have a MySpace account but no idea what the username is, likewise Habbo Hotel. What about any website with a forum facility? My Web browser remembers all the one off usernames I make up for sites and the Recover Password feature acts as my gatekeeper.
buovjaga 10y ago
Social media is a more general concept compared to social networks. Even IRC can be interpreted to be social media.

KKKKkkkk1 10y ago

If you're a nonresident, the CBP officer has full discretion whether to let you in or not, and you have no right of appeal. So when the officer asks you a question, answering it is not really optional.

Someone1234 10y ago
True. But it will be LISTED as optional on the form. If you get an interviewed by the thugs at the border it will definitely be non-optional for all intents and purposes. The whole thing is messed up either way. They'll no doubt just start asking you to log into your social media accounts so they can go through your personal shit, I've had US border agents go through my phone and ask me idiotic questions about the photos on it (all family vacation photos). Entering the US or UK is a pretty terrible experience all around. They're rude for no reason (and it has nothing to do with their job), overly invasion, and their entire justification is based on their own gut rather than fact (inc. ten year bans). PS - I have never been rejected at any border. Just been hassled a few times.

sandworm101 10y ago

What about those many of us who do not have facebook or twitter profiles? Are we now to be red-flagged as suspicious. Perhaps this is just a marketing stunt, an attempt to force more people onto US social media platforms.

kafkaesq 10y ago

I noticed you didn't fill out the question regarding online identity. Do you have an online identity?" And the punchline? Making "materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representations" to federal officials to questions like these can (per 18 U.S.C. § 1001) -- and the way things are going in this country, soon enough most likely will be used obtain felony convictions plus jail time against those so audaciously naive as to believe... this sort thing could never happen here: Making false statements (18 U.S.C. § 1001) is the common name for the United States federal crime laid out in Section 1001 of Title 18 of the United States Code, which generally prohibits knowingly and willfully making false or fraudulent statements, or concealing information, in "any matter within the jurisdiction" of the federal government of the United States, even by mere denial. A number of notable people have been convicted under the section, including Martha Stewart, Rod Blagojevich, Scooter Libby, Bernard Madoff, and Jeffrey Skilling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements