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Scotland can't leave the UK and remain in the EU. They would have to become independent and then begin the application process, which could take years. There'

Scotland can't leave the UK and remain in the EU. They would have to become independent and then begin the application process, which could take years. There's a real possibility that some EU members will oppose their application. EDIT: "UK Government could use Article 48 of the Lisbon Treaty to apply for a treaty change which would allow Scotland to become a member when it formally becomes independent in 2016. The Article 48 route has been dismissed by the UK Government and it would also require unanimous approval of all the other 28 EU members. Instead the more likely route is Article 49 which requires Scotland to apply for membership." This is just from some light Googling, some more informed people may have more details from http://www.scotsman.com/scottish-independence/key-topic/european-union/ http://www.scotsman.com/scottish-independence/key-topic/euro...

fennecfoxen 10y ago
I wonder if they could do something crazy and structure Brexit as as England, Wales, and northern Ireland seceding from the UK, without ever actually invoking the exit procedures. It would probably never happen and would be incredibly silly but it's interesting to think about if it could.
- Tomte 10y ago
  That idea came up in an Economist article, but I just don't see it. Would Scotland even want to keep the Queen?
  - djr96 10y ago
    It's alright, we can fire her afterwards.
Olap84 10y ago
Source required for this one.
ck425 10y ago
We might not have to leave the uk and rejoin. There's precedence for regions of countries not being in the EU while other are. Additionally the UK is a union between Scotland and England so we'd technically not be leaving, but choosing to break the union, at which point the UK ceases to exist and becomes Scotland and England (and it's associated region/principalities etc). Since the UK is the member of the EU (not it constituent countries) if the union is broken before the UK leaves the EU then it's a legally grey area as the country that was a member of the EU no longer exists. England does automatically inherit all treaties that applied to the UK, both countries would need to renegotiate international treaties as two newly separate countries. Though of course England being the bigger country has a lot more weight in these matters. But England would not be RUK, it would be England, and many matters such as EU membership are with UK.
- sievebrain 10y ago
  The EU Commission has already said flat out there would have to be a new application. That application would certainly be vetoed by either the Spanish (catalan issues) or the Germans (Scotland has a bigger deficit than Greece).
  - ck425 10y ago
    Perhaps, but it would be a different situation from a completely new country joining. The Spanish have back pedalled on their previous threats to do so. Not sure about Germany. I'm not say it would definitely happen, only that it would be an unprecedented situation so we can't rely on assumptions either way.
    - fauigerzigerk 10y ago
      I agree. At this point all assumptions based on the status quo ante have to be treated with great caution. The Spanish may very well accept that the UK/Scotland situation is now different enough from their own that any contagion is unlikely.
  - kuschku 10y ago
alkonaut 10y ago
> Scotland can't leave the UK and remain in the EU. They would have to become independent and then begin the application process, which could take years. There is precedence for the opposite. That said, Scotland on its own would have to demonstrate that it can be a member, but it's far from clear that they would have to reapply. Repplying would almost certainly fail because Madrid would block it.
- DavidHm 10y ago
  Madrid would have certainly blocked Scotland if it separated from a UK that was still in the EU (for obvious Catalunian reasons). With the UK on its way out from the EU, an argument can be made that Madrid will be persuaded to let this happen.
rjsw 10y ago
There is a link on the wiki page for the Auld Alliance [1] that suggests that it is still in effect, it wasn't revoked by the Act of Union with England and Wales. Maybe the Scots can just declare themselves to be French and stay in the EU that way. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Alliance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Alliance

fennecfoxen 10y ago

I wonder if they could do something crazy and structure Brexit as as England, Wales, and northern Ireland seceding from the UK, without ever actually invoking the exit procedures. It would probably never happen and would be incredibly silly but it's interesting to think about if it could.

Tomte 10y ago
That idea came up in an Economist article, but I just don't see it. Would Scotland even want to keep the Queen?
- djr96 10y ago
  It's alright, we can fire her afterwards.

Olap84 10y ago

Source required for this one.

ck425 10y ago

We might not have to leave the uk and rejoin. There's precedence for regions of countries not being in the EU while other are. Additionally the UK is a union between Scotland and England so we'd technically not be leaving, but choosing to break the union, at which point the UK ceases to exist and becomes Scotland and England (and it's associated region/principalities etc). Since the UK is the member of the EU (not it constituent countries) if the union is broken before the UK leaves the EU then it's a legally grey area as the country that was a member of the EU no longer exists. England does automatically inherit all treaties that applied to the UK, both countries would need to renegotiate international treaties as two newly separate countries. Though of course England being the bigger country has a lot more weight in these matters. But England would not be RUK, it would be England, and many matters such as EU membership are with UK.

sievebrain 10y ago
The EU Commission has already said flat out there would have to be a new application. That application would certainly be vetoed by either the Spanish (catalan issues) or the Germans (Scotland has a bigger deficit than Greece).
- ck425 10y ago
  Perhaps, but it would be a different situation from a completely new country joining. The Spanish have back pedalled on their previous threats to do so. Not sure about Germany. I'm not say it would definitely happen, only that it would be an unprecedented situation so we can't rely on assumptions either way.
  - fauigerzigerk 10y ago
    I agree. At this point all assumptions based on the status quo ante have to be treated with great caution. The Spanish may very well accept that the UK/Scotland situation is now different enough from their own that any contagion is unlikely.
- kuschku 10y ago

alkonaut 10y ago

> Scotland can't leave the UK and remain in the EU. They would have to become independent and then begin the application process, which could take years. There is precedence for the opposite. That said, Scotland on its own would have to demonstrate that it can be a member, but it's far from clear that they would have to reapply. Repplying would almost certainly fail because Madrid would block it.

DavidHm 10y ago
Madrid would have certainly blocked Scotland if it separated from a UK that was still in the EU (for obvious Catalunian reasons). With the UK on its way out from the EU, an argument can be made that Madrid will be persuaded to let this happen.

rjsw 10y ago

There is a link on the wiki page for the Auld Alliance [1] that suggests that it is still in effect, it wasn't revoked by the Act of Union with England and Wales. Maybe the Scots can just declare themselves to be French and stay in the EU that way. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Alliance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Alliance