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Something like Juno could only work as far as Jupiter, maybe Saturn, but at some point the size of the solar panels grows too unwieldy. Jupiter gets 1/25 the su

by iwwr 10y ago

Something like Juno could only work as far as Jupiter, maybe Saturn, but at some point the size of the solar panels grows too unwieldy. Jupiter gets 1/25 the sunlight of Earth, Saturn is 1/100, Uranus is 1/400 and Neptune 1/900.

raverbashing 10y ago
Material for RTGs running out is a thing unfortunately
- Tepix 10y ago
  According to Wikipedia, the United States restarted production of Plutonium-238 at circa 1.5 kg a year in 2013 after a c. 25-year hiatus.
  - raverbashing 10y ago
    Good the Cassini one used 7kg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPHS-RTG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPHS-RTG so I guess it will be some time before new ones are made
    - dr_zoidberg 10y ago
      They've been exploring smaller designs with better efficiency. Not just because of the shortage, but also because evergy gram counts in a spacecraft... Well maybe every kilogram, but you got my point. Any savings in mass count, and if you get to cut 1% from the spacecrafts final mass, it can mean a lot in terms of speed and timings for the mission. Wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator#Efficiency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_ge... The thermophotovoltaic cells look lik a very interesting approach, don't know why they haven't been used yet. With them, Cassini could've used 2 RTGs instead of 3, resulting in a mass saving of 57.5 kg (2% lower dry mass from one less RTG) and some extra power. I do take into account that this technology ws probably not developed enough when Cassini launched.
krylon 10y ago
I did not know Juno used solar panels. I know that a probe to explore the ice giants would require an RTG (or some other energy source other than solar panels). Still, I think it would be very interesting to study the ice giants and the respective moons and ring systems more closely.
- exDM69 10y ago
  Juno is only possible because of new improvements in solar panels. And even so, it's a relatively low powered space probe at 400 watts. A lot of power is required for radio communication and heating. Going any further with solar power is not feasible with the technology available today.
- simonh 10y ago
  It's the first probe going out that far that uses panels, all the previous ones use RTGs. When it was built (launched in 2011) there was a severe Pu-238 shortage; it's still in short supply, but back in production (as of 2013) and so some future long range RTG powered missions might be back on the table.
  - krylon 10y ago
    Oh well, I guess Uranus will still be around in few years. ;-)
    - exDM69 10y ago
      But is Uranus or Neptune in a position that can be reached with gravity assists? And even if it is, orbital insertion requires a lot of energy, so a flyby is probably the only possible option.
      - krylon 10y ago
        Mmmh. I can still hope, can't I? I mean, really, assuming that all of the practical problems of building a probe and getting it to Uranus or Neptune were solved, wouldn't you just love to send it there and explore the $expletive out of them?
jessriedel 10y ago
That's not how mission planning works. They don't start with something roughly like Juno and decide which planet to send it to. Rather, the planet and rough scientific mission is picked first, then the probe is designed around that. I guess you could just mean "There is an RTG shortage, so we can't send anything past Jupiter", but I don't think this is actually how the decision was made.

by iwwr 10y ago

raverbashing 10y ago

Material for RTGs running out is a thing unfortunately

Tepix 10y ago
According to Wikipedia, the United States restarted production of Plutonium-238 at circa 1.5 kg a year in 2013 after a c. 25-year hiatus.
- raverbashing 10y ago
  Good the Cassini one used 7kg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPHS-RTG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPHS-RTG so I guess it will be some time before new ones are made
  - dr_zoidberg 10y ago
    They've been exploring smaller designs with better efficiency. Not just because of the shortage, but also because evergy gram counts in a spacecraft... Well maybe every kilogram, but you got my point. Any savings in mass count, and if you get to cut 1% from the spacecrafts final mass, it can mean a lot in terms of speed and timings for the mission. Wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator#Efficiency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_ge... The thermophotovoltaic cells look lik a very interesting approach, don't know why they haven't been used yet. With them, Cassini could've used 2 RTGs instead of 3, resulting in a mass saving of 57.5 kg (2% lower dry mass from one less RTG) and some extra power. I do take into account that this technology ws probably not developed enough when Cassini launched.

krylon 10y ago

I did not know Juno used solar panels. I know that a probe to explore the ice giants would require an RTG (or some other energy source other than solar panels). Still, I think it would be very interesting to study the ice giants and the respective moons and ring systems more closely.

exDM69 10y ago
Juno is only possible because of new improvements in solar panels. And even so, it's a relatively low powered space probe at 400 watts. A lot of power is required for radio communication and heating. Going any further with solar power is not feasible with the technology available today.
simonh 10y ago
It's the first probe going out that far that uses panels, all the previous ones use RTGs. When it was built (launched in 2011) there was a severe Pu-238 shortage; it's still in short supply, but back in production (as of 2013) and so some future long range RTG powered missions might be back on the table.
- krylon 10y ago
  Oh well, I guess Uranus will still be around in few years. ;-)
  - exDM69 10y ago
    But is Uranus or Neptune in a position that can be reached with gravity assists? And even if it is, orbital insertion requires a lot of energy, so a flyby is probably the only possible option.
    - krylon 10y ago
      Mmmh. I can still hope, can't I? I mean, really, assuming that all of the practical problems of building a probe and getting it to Uranus or Neptune were solved, wouldn't you just love to send it there and explore the $expletive out of them?

jessriedel 10y ago

That's not how mission planning works. They don't start with something roughly like Juno and decide which planet to send it to. Rather, the planet and rough scientific mission is picked first, then the probe is designed around that. I guess you could just mean "There is an RTG shortage, so we can't send anything past Jupiter", but I don't think this is actually how the decision was made.