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It is very much alive in Germany, and this is regularly mentioned as a reason why the economy there is doing relatively well. [0] From the German wikipedia, I

It is very much alive in Germany, and this is regularly mentioned as a reason why the economy there is doing relatively well. [0] From the German wikipedia, I see there's a school that educates glass blowers, and they have various areas of specialisation. [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany#Apprenticeship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany#Apprentic... [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasbläser https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasbläser

_delirium 10y ago
Even there it's definitely not as robust as it used to be, though it's not declining as quickly as elsewhere. I'm more familiar with the Danish system, which used to be somewhat modeled after the German one, but has rapidly changed over the past 20 years. The main problem is that, of two higher-education tracks that were previously both seen as a path to a stable, well-paying job, the vocational/training and the university tracks, pay and employment rates have diverged rapidly to the point where university is now clearly seen as the better path. Lots of reasons, ranging from automation to outsourcing to immigration. In the 1970s in Denmark a skilled machinist working at a shipyard made more than a typical office worker, and had high job security. But that is no longer the case. Every shipyard in Denmark has now closed, for one thing, which led to many of the people who used to have good jobs there struggling to find new work. There are definitely still niches where the vocational path can get you a very high-paying job, but as a whole it's seen as a riskier bet than it used to be, so is getting less popular. There's also a feeling that even picking a vocational area that looks hot now is too risky, because in 10 years it might share the fate of the shipping industry. (A similar story can be told about the steel industry in the US, which was once seen as a very good career path, but now tends to serve as more of a object lesson for why not to follow the vocational-skills path.)
- briandear 10y ago
  Most plumbers and electricians I know make a lot more money than the infinite number of "social media specialists" or "copywriters" I know. The problem isn't risk, it's perception of self-worth. Many millennial-types view the trades as beneth them (as they pour coffee at Starbucks waiting for some value to be realized from their worthless gender-studies degree.)
  - dalke 10y ago
    I don't think these millennial-types are any different in that regard than their Gen-X predecessors. Except of course that adult Gen-X slackers, who are more likely to be a homeowner, have had a lot more time to learn what a good plumber or electrician is worth.
jlg23 10y ago
It's not like it's a choice, in almost every field in which one can do an apprenticeship, one has to do it to be allowed to work professionally. In combination with an age limit of 30 for most governmental support during apprenticeship this leads to a very static workforce in which people cannot easily change specialization later in life. I also doubt that apprenticeships contribute much to an economy that is mostly driven by high-tech exports.

_delirium 10y ago

Even there it's definitely not as robust as it used to be, though it's not declining as quickly as elsewhere. I'm more familiar with the Danish system, which used to be somewhat modeled after the German one, but has rapidly changed over the past 20 years. The main problem is that, of two higher-education tracks that were previously both seen as a path to a stable, well-paying job, the vocational/training and the university tracks, pay and employment rates have diverged rapidly to the point where university is now clearly seen as the better path. Lots of reasons, ranging from automation to outsourcing to immigration. In the 1970s in Denmark a skilled machinist working at a shipyard made more than a typical office worker, and had high job security. But that is no longer the case. Every shipyard in Denmark has now closed, for one thing, which led to many of the people who used to have good jobs there struggling to find new work. There are definitely still niches where the vocational path can get you a very high-paying job, but as a whole it's seen as a riskier bet than it used to be, so is getting less popular. There's also a feeling that even picking a vocational area that looks hot now is too risky, because in 10 years it might share the fate of the shipping industry. (A similar story can be told about the steel industry in the US, which was once seen as a very good career path, but now tends to serve as more of a object lesson for why not to follow the vocational-skills path.)

briandear 10y ago
Most plumbers and electricians I know make a lot more money than the infinite number of "social media specialists" or "copywriters" I know. The problem isn't risk, it's perception of self-worth. Many millennial-types view the trades as beneth them (as they pour coffee at Starbucks waiting for some value to be realized from their worthless gender-studies degree.)
- dalke 10y ago
  I don't think these millennial-types are any different in that regard than their Gen-X predecessors. Except of course that adult Gen-X slackers, who are more likely to be a homeowner, have had a lot more time to learn what a good plumber or electrician is worth.

jlg23 10y ago

It's not like it's a choice, in almost every field in which one can do an apprenticeship, one has to do it to be allowed to work professionally. In combination with an age limit of 30 for most governmental support during apprenticeship this leads to a very static workforce in which people cannot easily change specialization later in life. I also doubt that apprenticeships contribute much to an economy that is mostly driven by high-tech exports.