4 ms·

It's very dangerous to assume the UK will get the same sort of deal as Norway. Norway has some unique cultural and exononomic attributes that are very differen

by dc2447 10y ago

It's very dangerous to assume the UK will get the same sort of deal as Norway. Norway has some unique cultural and exononomic attributes that are very different from the UK. Whilst it is in the interest of the EU to have a trade agreement with UK, the UK does not have a strong negotiating position. Why would EU member states do anything to help a country that is destabilising the entire EU project.

achamayou 10y ago
Britain is quite unlikely to keep their rebate if they go this route, so they'll end up spending more on the EU than they currently do.
- Aeolos 10y ago
  The UK was paying 0.3% of their budget for control of 9% of the European Parliament. Following the Norway model, they will keep paying a similar amount of money but control 0% of the parliament. Excellent choice, my dear Britons, excellent choice.
  - NetTechM 10y ago
    Hardly a majority at 9% though, in most cases 9% is just as good as 0%. lol
NetStrikeForce 10y ago
Because we're stronger together, that's why it's in the interest of the EU to keep the UK in its area of influence.
- lostlogin 10y ago
  EU influence is precisely what has just been voted out. Presumably the EU has to offer sweeteners to keep the UK close.
  - NetStrikeForce 10y ago
    > EU influence is precisely what has just been voted out. I said "it's in the interest of the EU to keep the UK in its area of influence." and I don't remember the EU voting to kick out the UK, but quite the other way around. The EU will work towards keeping the UK close and rebuilding any lost synergies. The problem (for the UK mainly) is that they won't do it at any cost. That means no sweeteners at all. The UK can take it or leave it, but they will not be getting anything better than what they had - and they will keep all the obligations they had (free movement of people and other regulations they wanted to "take back"). Unfortunately that might just grow UKIPs electoral base as they'll feel legitimized to keep blaming the EU for any UK issues. This is what happens when you (Thatcher - if you don't know her just remember she was Pinochet's friend) create a non-working class with nothing to lose that lives out of benefits and then you proceed to destroy state education - you initially get them to vote you in exchange of your charity, until they feel entitled to charity and someone really populist comes around and channels their anger "because you threaten to reduce benefits or the immigrants are taking them... and their jobs, which hasn't existed since the 80s". The UK is dangerously steering towards a fascist state and the only way to stop it is to improve education, which no recent government has been taking seriously. Note: In case someone is looking for a flamewar, I'm not saying everyone that voted Leave falls into the demographic described above, but it is a very important demographic inside the UK and especially in North England, Wales and other impoverished areas.
    - gonvaled 10y ago
      I follow you until here: > Unfortunately that might just grow UKIPs electoral base as they'll feel legitimized to keep blaming the EU for any UK issues. How would the UKIP be blaming the EU once the UK is out? Whatever the deal the EU offers, good or bad, it's a deal which will be accepted by the UK, a sovereign state. It will not be imposed. Hard to see how they can blame the EU for defending their interests, since I assume the UK will be doing the same. The only possible explanation here is that the EU is able to force the UK to accept a "bad deal". But that directly contradicts the UKIP narrative, that "the UK is a strong nation, and all regions around the world will be ready to sign deals with it".
nabla9 10y ago
>Why would EU member states do anything to help a country that is destabilising the entire EU project. It's not help. It's for the benefit of everyone. The whole point of EU is that it's not zero-sum game. Britain's negotiation position is weakened, but other EU countries want to get access into British markets just as much as Brits want to get into EU markets.
- random_upvoter 10y ago
  > Britain's negotiation position is weakened The EU isn't in the greatest shape either. In the past, it was always Britain vs. Germany and France because Britain was the problem child. As from now, Britain has more possibilities to align closer to Germany OR France -- which may possibly divide the partners, especially because German-French relations have been strained in recent years. The time of Mitterand and Kohl holding hands like lovers has gone.
  - nabla9 10y ago
    >Britain has more possibilities to align closer to Germany OR France This does not make any sense to me. Does anyone else think that way? I think you are just freely fantasizing.
    - random_upvoter 10y ago
      I'm just skeptical about this supposition that a firmly united Europe is going to wipe the floor with the UK. This is not some 5 million people nation that you're going to boss around a bit. The UK has one of the longest running systems of government in the world with a diplomatic tradition going back to the power games of 19th century Europe. It has strong ties to the Commonwealth and the United States. While negotiating with the EU it only needs to look after its own interests. Opposite the UK stands the EU consisting of 27 nations, all with their own interests, many of which have to deal with their own eurosceptics at home. There's been mounting discontent about the domineering role of Germany. I believe that things may become very interesting.
  - jacquesm 10y ago

by dc2447 10y ago

achamayou 10y ago

Britain is quite unlikely to keep their rebate if they go this route, so they'll end up spending more on the EU than they currently do.

Aeolos 10y ago
The UK was paying 0.3% of their budget for control of 9% of the European Parliament. Following the Norway model, they will keep paying a similar amount of money but control 0% of the parliament. Excellent choice, my dear Britons, excellent choice.
- NetTechM 10y ago
  Hardly a majority at 9% though, in most cases 9% is just as good as 0%. lol

NetStrikeForce 10y ago

Because we're stronger together, that's why it's in the interest of the EU to keep the UK in its area of influence.

lostlogin 10y ago
EU influence is precisely what has just been voted out. Presumably the EU has to offer sweeteners to keep the UK close.
- NetStrikeForce 10y ago
  > EU influence is precisely what has just been voted out. I said "it's in the interest of the EU to keep the UK in its area of influence." and I don't remember the EU voting to kick out the UK, but quite the other way around. The EU will work towards keeping the UK close and rebuilding any lost synergies. The problem (for the UK mainly) is that they won't do it at any cost. That means no sweeteners at all. The UK can take it or leave it, but they will not be getting anything better than what they had - and they will keep all the obligations they had (free movement of people and other regulations they wanted to "take back"). Unfortunately that might just grow UKIPs electoral base as they'll feel legitimized to keep blaming the EU for any UK issues. This is what happens when you (Thatcher - if you don't know her just remember she was Pinochet's friend) create a non-working class with nothing to lose that lives out of benefits and then you proceed to destroy state education - you initially get them to vote you in exchange of your charity, until they feel entitled to charity and someone really populist comes around and channels their anger "because you threaten to reduce benefits or the immigrants are taking them... and their jobs, which hasn't existed since the 80s". The UK is dangerously steering towards a fascist state and the only way to stop it is to improve education, which no recent government has been taking seriously. Note: In case someone is looking for a flamewar, I'm not saying everyone that voted Leave falls into the demographic described above, but it is a very important demographic inside the UK and especially in North England, Wales and other impoverished areas.
  - gonvaled 10y ago
    I follow you until here: > Unfortunately that might just grow UKIPs electoral base as they'll feel legitimized to keep blaming the EU for any UK issues. How would the UKIP be blaming the EU once the UK is out? Whatever the deal the EU offers, good or bad, it's a deal which will be accepted by the UK, a sovereign state. It will not be imposed. Hard to see how they can blame the EU for defending their interests, since I assume the UK will be doing the same. The only possible explanation here is that the EU is able to force the UK to accept a "bad deal". But that directly contradicts the UKIP narrative, that "the UK is a strong nation, and all regions around the world will be ready to sign deals with it".

nabla9 10y ago

>Why would EU member states do anything to help a country that is destabilising the entire EU project. It's not help. It's for the benefit of everyone. The whole point of EU is that it's not zero-sum game. Britain's negotiation position is weakened, but other EU countries want to get access into British markets just as much as Brits want to get into EU markets.

random_upvoter 10y ago
> Britain's negotiation position is weakened The EU isn't in the greatest shape either. In the past, it was always Britain vs. Germany and France because Britain was the problem child. As from now, Britain has more possibilities to align closer to Germany OR France -- which may possibly divide the partners, especially because German-French relations have been strained in recent years. The time of Mitterand and Kohl holding hands like lovers has gone.
- nabla9 10y ago
  >Britain has more possibilities to align closer to Germany OR France This does not make any sense to me. Does anyone else think that way? I think you are just freely fantasizing.
  - random_upvoter 10y ago
    I'm just skeptical about this supposition that a firmly united Europe is going to wipe the floor with the UK. This is not some 5 million people nation that you're going to boss around a bit. The UK has one of the longest running systems of government in the world with a diplomatic tradition going back to the power games of 19th century Europe. It has strong ties to the Commonwealth and the United States. While negotiating with the EU it only needs to look after its own interests. Opposite the UK stands the EU consisting of 27 nations, all with their own interests, many of which have to deal with their own eurosceptics at home. There's been mounting discontent about the domineering role of Germany. I believe that things may become very interesting.
- jacquesm 10y ago