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I truly wonder whether the population of London will ever forgive Johnson for his part in the referendum. It may will prove significant in elections and refere

by iMark 10y ago

I truly wonder whether the population of London will ever forgive Johnson for his part in the referendum. It may will prove significant in elections and referendums to come.

xorgar831 10y ago
Britain has never really considered itself part of Europe, they've historically taken amusement in the irony of how they refer to "Europe" and "the continent" to refer to not the UK, as though they're not part of it. They don't learn the languages of Europe more than what's needed for a vacation, at best. They didn't join the EEC, which certainly looked a lot like they wanted to use their pound sterling more than to help the community. And now of course Brexit, which makes no sense at all from a rational perspective. The argument of doing what's best for everyone is just not something that resonates in their politics, much in the same way that's it's not a mainstream value in the USA either. Rather it's about "what's in it for me". Those are not the values of the majority in continental Europe thankfully, asking the question of what's best for everyone resonates stronger.
- lampington 10y ago
  ITYM EMU. The UK joined the EEC in 1973.
- acjohnson55 10y ago
  I don't think it's quite true that there's a big divide between the social democracy of the continent versus the individualism of the UK. Both regions are significantly more committed to social democracy than the US, where universal healthcare is still massively controversial. And a very similar strain of nationalistic tribalism is gaining currency on both sides of the Channel. The British don't have any sort of monopoly on Euroskepticism and traditional ethnocentrism.
lampington 10y ago
TBH I don't think London matters that much to him. The Tories' heartland is outside the capital, or on its borders, in areas that voted leave.
- iofj 10y ago
  This article has a nice breakdown: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-24/down-and-out-in-london-as-wealthy-capital-outvoted-on-brexit#media-3 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-24/down-and-o... 2 things stand out: Younger people voted remain The richer you are, the more likely you voted remain. The working class is solidly on the side of Brexit (65%). Middle class is slightly on the Brexit side. I wonder which of these is the bigger effect. Waiters in central London, for instance, who commute out far to get to their jobs. How did they vote ? The EU has it's scapegoat: they're blaming the whole thing on David Cameron, for allowing a vote in the first place, in a supreme display of utter disdain for democracy. Of course, every vote save one about whether people wanted the EU saw people reject the EU, so I guess you can't expect Europe to like voters. Scarily a lot of people are going along with them. I don't understand why. Democracy is the central guarantee that protects workers and anything but the largest entrepreneurs from exploitation. Also I don't understand why Hacker News, who mostly seem to be leaning to the left, are taking such a pro-capital stance. London's wealth is built at least in part, like Luxembourg's, on being a tax haven in the center of Europe, inside the EU but not paying most taxes. That's borderline criminal. Does anyone here really think that playing on the side of big capital will work out well for you personally ? For 99.99% of the readers here it is simple: you are not a billionaire temporarily embarrassed by a misplaced comma on your bank account balance, you are either working or (maybe) middle class. Unless big capital, and the EU itself loses out big time you will die in poverty (just calculate out what your pension fund performance is when non-core inflation is 3% and interest rates are 0.25%).
  - dingaling 10y ago
    > Also I don't understand why Hacker News, who mostly seem to be leaning to the left, are taking such a pro-capital stance. It's also a remarkably conservative stance versus the usual cry to 'disrupt all the things'. Surely an enormous political union with 750 million inhabitants, which has evolved gradually over 60 years with no clear objective or defined scope and little input from those inhabitants, is ripe for innovation and disruption?

by iMark 10y ago

I truly wonder whether the population of London will ever forgive Johnson for his part in the referendum. It may will prove significant in elections and referendums to come.

xorgar831 10y ago

Britain has never really considered itself part of Europe, they've historically taken amusement in the irony of how they refer to "Europe" and "the continent" to refer to not the UK, as though they're not part of it. They don't learn the languages of Europe more than what's needed for a vacation, at best. They didn't join the EEC, which certainly looked a lot like they wanted to use their pound sterling more than to help the community. And now of course Brexit, which makes no sense at all from a rational perspective. The argument of doing what's best for everyone is just not something that resonates in their politics, much in the same way that's it's not a mainstream value in the USA either. Rather it's about "what's in it for me". Those are not the values of the majority in continental Europe thankfully, asking the question of what's best for everyone resonates stronger.

lampington 10y ago
ITYM EMU. The UK joined the EEC in 1973.
acjohnson55 10y ago
I don't think it's quite true that there's a big divide between the social democracy of the continent versus the individualism of the UK. Both regions are significantly more committed to social democracy than the US, where universal healthcare is still massively controversial. And a very similar strain of nationalistic tribalism is gaining currency on both sides of the Channel. The British don't have any sort of monopoly on Euroskepticism and traditional ethnocentrism.

lampington 10y ago

TBH I don't think London matters that much to him. The Tories' heartland is outside the capital, or on its borders, in areas that voted leave.

iofj 10y ago
This article has a nice breakdown: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-24/down-and-out-in-london-as-wealthy-capital-outvoted-on-brexit#media-3 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-24/down-and-o... 2 things stand out: Younger people voted remain The richer you are, the more likely you voted remain. The working class is solidly on the side of Brexit (65%). Middle class is slightly on the Brexit side. I wonder which of these is the bigger effect. Waiters in central London, for instance, who commute out far to get to their jobs. How did they vote ? The EU has it's scapegoat: they're blaming the whole thing on David Cameron, for allowing a vote in the first place, in a supreme display of utter disdain for democracy. Of course, every vote save one about whether people wanted the EU saw people reject the EU, so I guess you can't expect Europe to like voters. Scarily a lot of people are going along with them. I don't understand why. Democracy is the central guarantee that protects workers and anything but the largest entrepreneurs from exploitation. Also I don't understand why Hacker News, who mostly seem to be leaning to the left, are taking such a pro-capital stance. London's wealth is built at least in part, like Luxembourg's, on being a tax haven in the center of Europe, inside the EU but not paying most taxes. That's borderline criminal. Does anyone here really think that playing on the side of big capital will work out well for you personally ? For 99.99% of the readers here it is simple: you are not a billionaire temporarily embarrassed by a misplaced comma on your bank account balance, you are either working or (maybe) middle class. Unless big capital, and the EU itself loses out big time you will die in poverty (just calculate out what your pension fund performance is when non-core inflation is 3% and interest rates are 0.25%).
- dingaling 10y ago
  > Also I don't understand why Hacker News, who mostly seem to be leaning to the left, are taking such a pro-capital stance. It's also a remarkably conservative stance versus the usual cry to 'disrupt all the things'. Surely an enormous political union with 750 million inhabitants, which has evolved gradually over 60 years with no clear objective or defined scope and little input from those inhabitants, is ripe for innovation and disruption?