4 ms·

Not being in the EU is not nearly as big a deal as leaving the EU. They need an entire framework for dealing with the EU that doesn't currently exist. It's lik

by Lerc 10y ago

Not being in the EU is not nearly as big a deal as leaving the EU. They need an entire framework for dealing with the EU that doesn't currently exist. It's like Britain just drank some poison, then went into a shop and said "Hi, I drank some poison and you're the only person that sells the antidote, What kind of deal can you give me on that?"

vonklaus 10y ago
This is case and point what I indicated above. Bizarre assertions and analogies that don't even attempt to explain why it is bad. I am having trouble finding out legitimate answers to why this is actually heralded as a catastrophicly bad move: > "Hi, I drank some poison and you're the only person that sells the antidote, What kind of deal can you give me on that?" Doesn't really cover it. I guess it could be translated to, there is a mismatch in leverage for trade negotiations and GB will need the EU much more than they need it, thus weakening their position.
- davidgerard 10y ago
  * Because "leave" involves untangling the UK from the EU, which is ridiculously more complicated than never having joined at all. * Because Scotland overwhelmingly voted "Remain", and are already talking about another independence referendum so they can stay in Europe. * Because a large chunk of the "Leave" voters (I don't have percentages, I expect they'll show up soon) are regretting it already. They're the dogs that chased a car and caught it and don't know what to do. * Because everyone who has any idea what "leave" would imply thought it was such a bad idea that they didn't take the idea seriously. * Because the "Leave" campaign didn't expect to win and had (seriously) no plan at all for how to achieve this. * Because everything the "Leave" campaign promised was literally lies, and now they have to explain this to the people who voted their way. * Because David Cameron originally said that if "leave" won, he'd invoke Article 50 the next day - and instead, he went "you know what? bugger this" and resigned, punting it to whichever unlucky bozo takes over as Tory leader and will thus be personally responsible for visiting a disaster upon the UK. * Because all of the details of the above, and plenty more besides. It's a cluster of clusterfucks, each of which contains another, smaller, clusterfuck.
  - Joeboy 10y ago
    > Because a large chunk of the "Leave" voters (I don't have percentages" are regretting it already. Clearly those people exist, but is there really any reason to think they are "a large chunk"? It's possible, but I would be surprised if millions of people had done a complete political U-turn overnight.
    - davidgerard 10y ago
      Yeah, that's why I'm waiting on numbers (per edit).
    - TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
      A lot of people in the UK's more deprived areas have been relying on EU money to keep some semblance of economic activity going. These areas literally have nothing. There used to be industry, but the Tories killed most of that and sent it abroad because they could make more money by selling and/or offshoring it. There's some tourism. Maybe some food production. A little light industry. And that's pretty much it. These areas had some of the strongest leave votes. Today they've woken up and demanded that the UK government continue to give them the same level of funding they got from the EU. Which is never going to happen. So - regrets - they have a few. But then again, certainly not too few to mention.
      - vidarh 10y ago
        Just to be clear in case someone thinks this is exaggerated: Cornwall voted Leave. Cornwall Council immediately started begging Westminster to plug the 60 million pounds/year funding hole that Brexit will leave as a result of lost EU funds. From [1]: > John Pollard, the leader of Cornwall council said: “Now that we know the UK will be leaving the EU we will be taking urgent steps to ensure that the UK Government protects Cornwall’s position in any negotiations. > “We will be insisting that Cornwall receives investment equal to that provided by the EU programme which has averaged £60m per year over the last ten years.” [1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-cornwall-issues-plea-for-funding-protection-after-county-overwhelmingly-votes-in-favour-of-a7101311.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-cornwa...
- philovivero 10y ago
  You are witnessing the output of a massive PR juggernaut. You will find nothing sensible. You will find appeals to emotion. I also have found not a single sensible piece of info telling me why this is bad for Britain, but I have found massive volumes of weird "assume the sale" PR.
- Lerc 10y ago
  That's how analogies work. They evoke an image which emphasizes the attribute that is pertinent to the situation. It doesn't explain why it is bad because it explains the situation and leaves the judgement to the reader.
  - vonklaus 10y ago
    Are you joking? Or are you contending that this satisfies a reasonable and thought out explanation of why Britain's referendum will have negative results: > It's like Britain just drank some poison, then went into a shop and said "Hi, I drank some poison and you're the only person that sells the antidote, What kind of deal can you give me on that?"

by Lerc 10y ago

vonklaus 10y ago

This is case and point what I indicated above. Bizarre assertions and analogies that don't even attempt to explain why it is bad. I am having trouble finding out legitimate answers to why this is actually heralded as a catastrophicly bad move: > "Hi, I drank some poison and you're the only person that sells the antidote, What kind of deal can you give me on that?" Doesn't really cover it. I guess it could be translated to, there is a mismatch in leverage for trade negotiations and GB will need the EU much more than they need it, thus weakening their position.

davidgerard 10y ago
* Because "leave" involves untangling the UK from the EU, which is ridiculously more complicated than never having joined at all. * Because Scotland overwhelmingly voted "Remain", and are already talking about another independence referendum so they can stay in Europe. * Because a large chunk of the "Leave" voters (I don't have percentages, I expect they'll show up soon) are regretting it already. They're the dogs that chased a car and caught it and don't know what to do. * Because everyone who has any idea what "leave" would imply thought it was such a bad idea that they didn't take the idea seriously. * Because the "Leave" campaign didn't expect to win and had (seriously) no plan at all for how to achieve this. * Because everything the "Leave" campaign promised was literally lies, and now they have to explain this to the people who voted their way. * Because David Cameron originally said that if "leave" won, he'd invoke Article 50 the next day - and instead, he went "you know what? bugger this" and resigned, punting it to whichever unlucky bozo takes over as Tory leader and will thus be personally responsible for visiting a disaster upon the UK. * Because all of the details of the above, and plenty more besides. It's a cluster of clusterfucks, each of which contains another, smaller, clusterfuck.
- Joeboy 10y ago
  > Because a large chunk of the "Leave" voters (I don't have percentages" are regretting it already. Clearly those people exist, but is there really any reason to think they are "a large chunk"? It's possible, but I would be surprised if millions of people had done a complete political U-turn overnight.
  - davidgerard 10y ago
    Yeah, that's why I'm waiting on numbers (per edit).
  - TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
    A lot of people in the UK's more deprived areas have been relying on EU money to keep some semblance of economic activity going. These areas literally have nothing. There used to be industry, but the Tories killed most of that and sent it abroad because they could make more money by selling and/or offshoring it. There's some tourism. Maybe some food production. A little light industry. And that's pretty much it. These areas had some of the strongest leave votes. Today they've woken up and demanded that the UK government continue to give them the same level of funding they got from the EU. Which is never going to happen. So - regrets - they have a few. But then again, certainly not too few to mention.
    - vidarh 10y ago
      Just to be clear in case someone thinks this is exaggerated: Cornwall voted Leave. Cornwall Council immediately started begging Westminster to plug the 60 million pounds/year funding hole that Brexit will leave as a result of lost EU funds. From [1]: > John Pollard, the leader of Cornwall council said: “Now that we know the UK will be leaving the EU we will be taking urgent steps to ensure that the UK Government protects Cornwall’s position in any negotiations. > “We will be insisting that Cornwall receives investment equal to that provided by the EU programme which has averaged £60m per year over the last ten years.” [1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-cornwall-issues-plea-for-funding-protection-after-county-overwhelmingly-votes-in-favour-of-a7101311.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-cornwa...
philovivero 10y ago
You are witnessing the output of a massive PR juggernaut. You will find nothing sensible. You will find appeals to emotion. I also have found not a single sensible piece of info telling me why this is bad for Britain, but I have found massive volumes of weird "assume the sale" PR.
Lerc 10y ago
That's how analogies work. They evoke an image which emphasizes the attribute that is pertinent to the situation. It doesn't explain why it is bad because it explains the situation and leaves the judgement to the reader.
- vonklaus 10y ago
  Are you joking? Or are you contending that this satisfies a reasonable and thought out explanation of why Britain's referendum will have negative results: > It's like Britain just drank some poison, then went into a shop and said "Hi, I drank some poison and you're the only person that sells the antidote, What kind of deal can you give me on that?"