7 ms·

I wonder why some people like compression so much. It almost always makes the sound much worse.

JChase2 10y ago
Mostly because you can get it louder, and usually louder can trick you into thinking it sounds clearer or "better". Plus there's the history with the whole loudness wars.
- honkhonkpants 10y ago
  All broadcast radio is highly compressed. Without it, it would be inaudible in most practical listening conditions (car, walking on the street, in your kitchen cooking).
- robotresearcher 10y ago
  There's also a psychoacoustic effect: compressed audio sounds louder, even if at the same objective SPL. Probably because very loud sounds are naturally compressed by the mechanics of the ear system saturating at high SPLs, so artificially compressed signals are recognized as 'loud sounding'.
jws 10y ago
I'm fairly certain he is speaking of data compression in the article, rather than dynamic volume compression. The problem with sending compressed signals is that they will probably be recompressed before making it to someone's ear and the chain of codecs may introduce strange artifacts.
- uxp100 10y ago
  No, I don't think so. They specifically talk about adding compression only into their newscast unit. Why would they data compress only one segment? Also, Compression sounds good. Too much, or badly configured compression sounds bad, obviously. But don't throw it all away. (Not that producers are at any risk of doing so.)
  - jws 10y ago
    I was thinking of remote newscast, where you might need to fit your data reliably over a cellular link, but now that I think about it, I don't think NPR does much remote newscast.
    - joombaga 10y ago
      Are you conflating dynamic range compression with data compression?
      - colejohnson66 10y ago
        Well, technically speaking, dynamic range compression /does/ make an MP3 smaller (IIRC)
        riprowan 10y ago
        So yes, you are conflating these things.
        colejohnson66 10y ago
        > you But I'm not OP?
        riprowan 10y ago
        Fair enough.
        joombaga 10y ago
        Right, but is it done for that purpose?
        colejohnson66 10y ago
        I don't know how MP3 works, but I was under the impression that a lower bitrate worked by compressing the dynamic range (or at least that was a side effect)
- OliverJones 10y ago
  No way he's talking about data compression, with respect. He's talking about frequency response adjustment and range compression (sometimes called "companding"). A while ago NPR used to use 2B ISDN (112Kbps in the US) for remote locations. I believe they used G.722 codecs for low-latency applications (conversations) and MPEG layer II for higher quality stuff. That was data compression. But the NPR distribution system isn't so bandwidth limited as to require crushing the data.
- chiph 10y ago
  No, he's talking about audio (sound) compression. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war This is one reason why I've stopped buying "Remastered" CDs - they almost always sound worse. Shop at Discogs.com where you can specify the release date, or buy from a quality-oriented label like mofi.com
  - colejohnson66 10y ago
    The key words are "almost always". While I haven't checked, I heard that Pink Floyd's remaster of "The Wall" and some of Led Zeplin's sound better because they focused on removing noise instead of making it louder.
    - chiph 10y ago
      > The Wall Interestingly - I have that CD (2-disc set) from way back in 1984 when it was first released (on the Harvest label in Europe), and it sounds like rubbish. In the early days of CDs the labels were dumping any title they thought would sell onto poly-carbonate, and didn't care much about cleaning it up. There were stories of CDs that still had the RIAA equalization curve (from LPs) still on them. I'd love to get the Mobile Fidelity pressing, but they were a limited release and is now selling for over $200.
      - enneff 10y ago
        I think the bad mastering of many early CDs is mostly because mastering engineers didn't know how to master CDs. They were still employing the same techniques they'd been using for vinyl, where they were hardly applicable. (I think that's where the RIAA curve thing comes from, which is unlikely to be literally true as the RIAA curve would remove almost all the bass from the recordings.)
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
eternauta3k 10y ago
It helps when you're listening in a noisy environment and the audio has large dynamic range.
burfog 10y ago
Mozart requires running the audio through compression multiple times. Without that, half of it is inaudible and you'll be constantly adjusting the volume knob. (at least with modern performances -- perhaps Mozart intended differently, and is now spinning in his grave due to excessive dynamics)
jdietrich 10y ago
As mentioned in the article, a large proportion of radio listening is done while driving. A car travelling at highway speeds has 60-70dB of background noise. Dynamic range compression prevents the station from becoming inaudibly quiet or uncomfortably loud in such a noisy environment. BBC Radio 3 (a national classical music station in the UK) uses heavy dynamic range compression during the drivetime peak, but far less compression during the day. This compromise provides a better experience for both hi-fi and in-car listeners. Very heavy dynamic range compression was historically useful for AM broadcasters, because it maximised signal strength.
fencepost 10y ago
One of the linked articles at the bottom of the original (at least for me) was about the relatively huge differences in levels between different shows, which noted that even a 6 DB change causes people to reach for the volume and higher levels end up with many turning the radio off. A radio that's off has no listeners.
ssalazar 10y ago
Don't conflate compression in general with the aggressive mastering-phase compression of the loudness wars. Some degree of compression is essential to pretty much any type of audio engineering. Tasteful use of compression is a real art and is an integral part of some of the best studio albums in any genre (except perhaps classical). Compression is essential for vocals except for people who somehow never move their head ever while talking or singing. Compression also makes drums sound amazing--hard, big boomy, Led Zeppelin-style drums don't just naturally sound that way, thats a compressor working its magic.
riprowan 10y ago
You're probably confusing audio compression with data compression. These days every note of music you listen to on every modern album has a compressor in it somewhere, even if you don't think you can hear it, it's there.

Mostly because you can get it louder, and usually louder can trick you into thinking it sounds clearer or "better". Plus there's the history with the whole loudness wars.

honkhonkpants 10y ago
All broadcast radio is highly compressed. Without it, it would be inaudible in most practical listening conditions (car, walking on the street, in your kitchen cooking).
robotresearcher 10y ago
There's also a psychoacoustic effect: compressed audio sounds louder, even if at the same objective SPL. Probably because very loud sounds are naturally compressed by the mechanics of the ear system saturating at high SPLs, so artificially compressed signals are recognized as 'loud sounding'.

jws 10y ago

I'm fairly certain he is speaking of data compression in the article, rather than dynamic volume compression. The problem with sending compressed signals is that they will probably be recompressed before making it to someone's ear and the chain of codecs may introduce strange artifacts.

uxp100 10y ago
No, I don't think so. They specifically talk about adding compression only into their newscast unit. Why would they data compress only one segment? Also, Compression sounds good. Too much, or badly configured compression sounds bad, obviously. But don't throw it all away. (Not that producers are at any risk of doing so.)
- jws 10y ago
  I was thinking of remote newscast, where you might need to fit your data reliably over a cellular link, but now that I think about it, I don't think NPR does much remote newscast.
  - joombaga 10y ago
    Are you conflating dynamic range compression with data compression?
    - colejohnson66 10y ago
      Well, technically speaking, dynamic range compression /does/ make an MP3 smaller (IIRC)
      - riprowan 10y ago
        So yes, you are conflating these things.
        colejohnson66 10y ago
        > you But I'm not OP?
        riprowan 10y ago
        Fair enough.
      - joombaga 10y ago
        Right, but is it done for that purpose?
        colejohnson66 10y ago
        I don't know how MP3 works, but I was under the impression that a lower bitrate worked by compressing the dynamic range (or at least that was a side effect)
OliverJones 10y ago
No way he's talking about data compression, with respect. He's talking about frequency response adjustment and range compression (sometimes called "companding"). A while ago NPR used to use 2B ISDN (112Kbps in the US) for remote locations. I believe they used G.722 codecs for low-latency applications (conversations) and MPEG layer II for higher quality stuff. That was data compression. But the NPR distribution system isn't so bandwidth limited as to require crushing the data.
chiph 10y ago
No, he's talking about audio (sound) compression. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war This is one reason why I've stopped buying "Remastered" CDs - they almost always sound worse. Shop at Discogs.com where you can specify the release date, or buy from a quality-oriented label like mofi.com
- colejohnson66 10y ago
  The key words are "almost always". While I haven't checked, I heard that Pink Floyd's remaster of "The Wall" and some of Led Zeplin's sound better because they focused on removing noise instead of making it louder.
  - chiph 10y ago
    > The Wall Interestingly - I have that CD (2-disc set) from way back in 1984 when it was first released (on the Harvest label in Europe), and it sounds like rubbish. In the early days of CDs the labels were dumping any title they thought would sell onto poly-carbonate, and didn't care much about cleaning it up. There were stories of CDs that still had the RIAA equalization curve (from LPs) still on them. I'd love to get the Mobile Fidelity pressing, but they were a limited release and is now selling for over $200.
    - enneff 10y ago
      I think the bad mastering of many early CDs is mostly because mastering engineers didn't know how to master CDs. They were still employing the same techniques they'd been using for vinyl, where they were hardly applicable. (I think that's where the RIAA curve thing comes from, which is unlikely to be literally true as the RIAA curve would remove almost all the bass from the recordings.)

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

eternauta3k 10y ago

It helps when you're listening in a noisy environment and the audio has large dynamic range.

burfog 10y ago

Mozart requires running the audio through compression multiple times. Without that, half of it is inaudible and you'll be constantly adjusting the volume knob. (at least with modern performances -- perhaps Mozart intended differently, and is now spinning in his grave due to excessive dynamics)

jdietrich 10y ago

As mentioned in the article, a large proportion of radio listening is done while driving. A car travelling at highway speeds has 60-70dB of background noise. Dynamic range compression prevents the station from becoming inaudibly quiet or uncomfortably loud in such a noisy environment. BBC Radio 3 (a national classical music station in the UK) uses heavy dynamic range compression during the drivetime peak, but far less compression during the day. This compromise provides a better experience for both hi-fi and in-car listeners. Very heavy dynamic range compression was historically useful for AM broadcasters, because it maximised signal strength.

fencepost 10y ago

One of the linked articles at the bottom of the original (at least for me) was about the relatively huge differences in levels between different shows, which noted that even a 6 DB change causes people to reach for the volume and higher levels end up with many turning the radio off. A radio that's off has no listeners.

ssalazar 10y ago

Don't conflate compression in general with the aggressive mastering-phase compression of the loudness wars. Some degree of compression is essential to pretty much any type of audio engineering. Tasteful use of compression is a real art and is an integral part of some of the best studio albums in any genre (except perhaps classical). Compression is essential for vocals except for people who somehow never move their head ever while talking or singing. Compression also makes drums sound amazing--hard, big boomy, Led Zeppelin-style drums don't just naturally sound that way, thats a compressor working its magic.

riprowan 10y ago

You're probably confusing audio compression with data compression. These days every note of music you listen to on every modern album has a compressor in it somewhere, even if you don't think you can hear it, it's there.