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> Sadly the question is boiled down to "In or out of EU" instead of "How to make EU better". We've been trying to get an answer to the second question, "How to

by tomp 10y ago

> Sadly the question is boiled down to "In or out of EU" instead of "How to make EU better". We've been trying to get an answer to the second question, "How to make EU better", for almost 10 years now. Unfortunately, every time the EU has an opportunity to change, the answer the Eurocrats give is the same: "Let's keep pretending everything is fine." I'm guessing it was last summer that they managed to convince the EU cannot change (from within) with their (mis-)treatment of Greece.

calgoo 10y ago
As a Swede living in Spain for over 20 years, I feel it here as well. The way that the Southern countries where treated by Germany and the central banks where horrible. Greece got hit the hardest, but there where a lot of rules and policies that where forced on several countries (Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland). I live in Spain, but am all for leaving the Euro and the EU. I saw how the loans etc where abused with very high interest rates etc. Here in Spain, the bailout money for the banks is not being repaid by the banks, the money is repaid by the people (This is more local legal issues where the rumor us that the political parties owe the banks over 100M Euros and if they did not agree the banks would come asking for their money back). However, all of these things together have created a very strong feeling of not knowing our futures, and not having any control over it. I can say that Merkel is a very hated person over here, as she is seen as the leader of the EU, and the one who was setting all the rules that was destroying rights that people here have been fighting for during the last 40 years. There are a lot of issues with the EU, and at this point its getting harder to find solutions for the issues at hand. If we wanted to save it, there would be some very big reforms i think. Starting with a big restructuring of the banking systems. You can not expect the different regions of Europe to work in the same way, it never has, and never will. Until this is accepted, we will keep on seeing the same results: Things are fine while the money flows, but once it stops, everything falls apart. You could get away with grouping "similar" countries into regions: such as the Scandinavian Union (cant remember the name). Another example from experience is for example Spain + Portugal + Italy + Andorra and maybe France. These countries work in similar ways and are very culturally alike.
pfg 10y ago
> Unfortunately, every time the EU has an opportunity to change, the answer the Eurocrats give is the same: "Let's keep pretending everything is fine." But is it really the Eurocrats who are blocking progress? It seems to me like most of the blame should go to the European Council. Whenever I see the Parliament (or really anyone) push for meaningful reform, it gets blocked by the Council. Instead of blaming our national politicians for their failure to push for (or even allow) reform in the Council, we keep electing them and blame the EU for their failure.
- mike_hearn 10y ago
  I agree with that analysis. It appears that people like Schulz and Juncker who make so many outrageous statements in recent days are in reality reflective of the thinking of the political elites in general, hence the difficulty of bringing about real change. If the issue is that they're suffering from a kind of groupthink (and I strongly suspect they are) then having one of their members tossed out and replaced by someone who is actually against the group might be sufficient to break it.

by tomp 10y ago

calgoo 10y ago

As a Swede living in Spain for over 20 years, I feel it here as well. The way that the Southern countries where treated by Germany and the central banks where horrible. Greece got hit the hardest, but there where a lot of rules and policies that where forced on several countries (Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland). I live in Spain, but am all for leaving the Euro and the EU. I saw how the loans etc where abused with very high interest rates etc. Here in Spain, the bailout money for the banks is not being repaid by the banks, the money is repaid by the people (This is more local legal issues where the rumor us that the political parties owe the banks over 100M Euros and if they did not agree the banks would come asking for their money back). However, all of these things together have created a very strong feeling of not knowing our futures, and not having any control over it. I can say that Merkel is a very hated person over here, as she is seen as the leader of the EU, and the one who was setting all the rules that was destroying rights that people here have been fighting for during the last 40 years. There are a lot of issues with the EU, and at this point its getting harder to find solutions for the issues at hand. If we wanted to save it, there would be some very big reforms i think. Starting with a big restructuring of the banking systems. You can not expect the different regions of Europe to work in the same way, it never has, and never will. Until this is accepted, we will keep on seeing the same results: Things are fine while the money flows, but once it stops, everything falls apart. You could get away with grouping "similar" countries into regions: such as the Scandinavian Union (cant remember the name). Another example from experience is for example Spain + Portugal + Italy + Andorra and maybe France. These countries work in similar ways and are very culturally alike.

pfg 10y ago

> Unfortunately, every time the EU has an opportunity to change, the answer the Eurocrats give is the same: "Let's keep pretending everything is fine." But is it really the Eurocrats who are blocking progress? It seems to me like most of the blame should go to the European Council. Whenever I see the Parliament (or really anyone) push for meaningful reform, it gets blocked by the Council. Instead of blaming our national politicians for their failure to push for (or even allow) reform in the Council, we keep electing them and blame the EU for their failure.

mike_hearn 10y ago
I agree with that analysis. It appears that people like Schulz and Juncker who make so many outrageous statements in recent days are in reality reflective of the thinking of the political elites in general, hence the difficulty of bringing about real change. If the issue is that they're suffering from a kind of groupthink (and I strongly suspect they are) then having one of their members tossed out and replaced by someone who is actually against the group might be sufficient to break it.