5 ms·

>The world is a much more connected place today than it was 50 years ago and next to a unified EU with the UK as an outsider (and, if we are to believe the late

by rtpg 10y ago

>The world is a much more connected place today than it was 50 years ago and next to a unified EU with the UK as an outsider (and, if we are to believe the latest developments with England as an outsider) it is not a very important country economically. The sad thing is that if the UK were more invested in the EU (for example, with the Schengen zone), then people might have ended up feeling more attached to it. The constant opt-outs made the UK an outsider, I think. This does bring up Junker's reaction though("Please leave immediately, close the door behind you"), which is a depressing reality of how most EU politics end up happening. Especially with the handling of Greece, there's this whole moral grandstanding that ends up becoming super antagonistic, when actual pragmatism would solve problems much better. "They need to suffer for their sins" seems to be a leading political thought process in Brussels(+Paris+Berlin), that makes the union seem less like a partnership and more like the Troika, flying in and making things worse for the hosts.

arrrg 10y ago
Your read on the EU's reaction seems weird. (Probably a result of the demonization of Juncker. I mean, I don't like juncker, too, but he is no monster. He is a bog-standard terribly unexciting politician.) You seem to see aggressiveness where there is concern. If the UK indeed wants to leave (and the responsible and democratic thing to assume, given the vote, is that they do) then its best if they make that clear immediately and set negotiations in progress. That's best for the UK, best for the EU. It creates certainty where now there is none. If the UK doesn't want to respect the will of its people then they should say so as quickly as possible, too! This is all common sense. We have to all know what to expect from the future to plan for it. I mean, what the hell do you expect Juncker to do? Beg for the UK to remain?! The EU has, I think, always made it clear that they would respect the UK's sovereignty! Isn't this what this is all about?
- SyneRyder 10y ago
  I think the point was that in the UK, politicians are now intending to take their time with the actual Brexit process. Boris Johnson said "there was no need for haste about severing the UK's ties". Cameron said they wouldn't begin negotiations until there is a new prime minister (in October) and that they have 2 years to negotiate from when they invoke Article 50 [1]. That would put the final Brexit at October 2018 or so. The EU seems to be angry that now the UK has made its decision, instead of acting swiftly, the UK are trying to remain in the EU as long as possible before Brexit. The EU would rather the UK finish negotiations & leave as soon as possible, so that everyone has certainty again. [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36615028 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36615028
- rtpg 10y ago
  Maybe I read to much into this but until the UK invokes article 50 I would expect the EU to remain neutral. My impression is that the EU wants this to happen fast to stop the market turmoil as well but I'd bet it'll just get an extra boost once Article 50 gets invoked

by rtpg 10y ago

arrrg 10y ago

Your read on the EU's reaction seems weird. (Probably a result of the demonization of Juncker. I mean, I don't like juncker, too, but he is no monster. He is a bog-standard terribly unexciting politician.) You seem to see aggressiveness where there is concern. If the UK indeed wants to leave (and the responsible and democratic thing to assume, given the vote, is that they do) then its best if they make that clear immediately and set negotiations in progress. That's best for the UK, best for the EU. It creates certainty where now there is none. If the UK doesn't want to respect the will of its people then they should say so as quickly as possible, too! This is all common sense. We have to all know what to expect from the future to plan for it. I mean, what the hell do you expect Juncker to do? Beg for the UK to remain?! The EU has, I think, always made it clear that they would respect the UK's sovereignty! Isn't this what this is all about?

SyneRyder 10y ago
I think the point was that in the UK, politicians are now intending to take their time with the actual Brexit process. Boris Johnson said "there was no need for haste about severing the UK's ties". Cameron said they wouldn't begin negotiations until there is a new prime minister (in October) and that they have 2 years to negotiate from when they invoke Article 50 [1]. That would put the final Brexit at October 2018 or so. The EU seems to be angry that now the UK has made its decision, instead of acting swiftly, the UK are trying to remain in the EU as long as possible before Brexit. The EU would rather the UK finish negotiations & leave as soon as possible, so that everyone has certainty again. [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36615028 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36615028
rtpg 10y ago
Maybe I read to much into this but until the UK invokes article 50 I would expect the EU to remain neutral. My impression is that the EU wants this to happen fast to stop the market turmoil as well but I'd bet it'll just get an extra boost once Article 50 gets invoked