5 ms·

It's not only Airbnb in Europe, but also Erasmus (twice a year they make finding housing very difficult), Uniplaces (like Airbnb but for EU students), local cla

It's not only Airbnb in Europe, but also Erasmus (twice a year they make finding housing very difficult), Uniplaces (like Airbnb but for EU students), local classifieds sites (which now just double as Airbnb and Uniplaces listings) and being known as an affordable city (like here, in Lisbon, which is being called "the new Berlin" as well as the new "startup capital city"). Over the past 3 years, rental prices here have increased 30%, pushing locals out of the city center. A quick look on Airbnb for Lisbon, one sees the average monthly price at around 700 euro (for a room) while some listings go well above 1,000 euro. Three years ago, the norm for a room - no matter how you found it - was 180 to 220 euro per month, now the minimum is 300 and increasing. People are mad, and rightly so since minimum wage here is 530 euro. If anyone wishes to see all the stats well laid out, this article below (in Portuguese) has been circulating locally. I suggest running it through an online translator. It's titled "Who is going to be able to live in Lisbon?" http://www.buala.org/pt/cidade/quem-vai-poder-morar-em-lisboa http://www.buala.org/pt/cidade/quem-vai-poder-morar-em-lisbo...? One of the images from the article is this (http://i.imgur.com/FFDVm0M.jpg http://i.imgur.com/FFDVm0M.jpg) showing local Airbnb saturation, where 75% of listings are entire homes/apts. Airbnb's regional head says in 2015 there were 12K homes listed in the Greater Lisbon area, a 60% jump from 2014 numbers. We're a small city but data shows there are 174 hostels and 184 hotels here, with many more in the pipeline. It's out of hand and the govt hasn't done much of anything to stop it. By the way, that local listing at over 1K euro per month? It had lots of reviews, meaning there have been plenty of takers.

golergka 10y ago
Why do you see this as something bad? Some people are willing to pay more than others for housing, so others have to move elsewhere; this is normal market at work, why would anyone want to stop it?
- personlurking 10y ago
  Because those willing to pay absurd prices are not locals, nor are they living here long-term, thus this causes locals and long-term residents to be pushed out of the city. Imagine being pushed out of your own city just because the market says tourists are more important than residents.
  - golergka 10y ago
    You still haven't explained why this is bad. See, I don't have to imagine it: my neighbourhood is being gentrified, rent is going up all around, and I'll have to move soon. Not the beat thing ever, but since I'm being honestly outbid on an open market, I fail to see why would someone want to intervene and regulate this. Also, residents are more "important" than tourists, that's what you're trying to say? Why the hell? What does "important" even mean?
    - uola 10y ago
      Residents are the ones starting and working for businesses, creating new value and paying taxes long term. Portugal is one of the worst economies in Europe. A lot of people have already moved. Trying to survive on tourism is a shortsighted and will end badly.
  - zanny 10y ago
    There is nothing to imagine, that is how markets operate. And it is how they have always operated. Hotels and tourist destinations are not built or preserved for your "visit it once and live there 30 years without going again" revenue. Unsurprisingly, money dictates land allocation. If you have the money to buy land (and in effect, tourists are buying inner city residential through airbnb) you can only resist economic reality so long. At that - how do you have claim to it being your city? Do you own it? If you own property in it, is someone evicting you from your own home? If you are renting, well, that's not owning. If your neighbors are deciding to sell or rent their homes at lucrative margins to tourists, why do you think you are in the right telling them they cannot do what they want with the property they own?
icebraining 10y ago
As someone who rents out rooms in Lisbon (not on AirBnB), I can assure you the minimum is not 300/month, nor are those rare. A five minute search finds multiple available rooms for <250€ - often with expenses included. I do agree there is cause for concern, but the knee-jerk attacks on AirBnB is silly. For example, there's not a single word in that article regarding the concerns of landlords in making long term rentals. When it takes two years, hundreds of euros and many lost working days to evict a non-paying tenant, is it any wonder that people prefer short term rentals? When you have a building falling to pieces after decades of rent-controlled tenants paying ridiculously low amounts (I know people paying 30€/m for a three bedroom apartment) and you can't afford to fix it, is it any wonder that you'll sell to foreign investors who can?
- personlurking 10y ago
  Among lots of "young" people I know (in their 20s and 30s), mostly foreigners living here, the consensus is definitely that 300 is the new norm. I've heard it time and time again from different kinds of people living in different neighborhoods in Lisbon. I, myself, am paying 300 (even though I would consider it a 250 euro room), and the landlord wishes to up the rent another 25 euro or so (he tried to get me to rent a smaller room so he could increase the price on mine). Among Portuguese young people, I've also heard many complaints about how hard it is to find a place that isn't a) way too much for what is being offered compared to previous years and b) in the outskirts of town. That being said, I am aware there are rooms for less than 300, but I'm more talking about rooms that aren't "shoeboxes", size-wise.
- Lucadg 10y ago
  same in Italy. Nobody wants to rent long term anymore and lose the apartment to someone who can't pay but can stay for a year or two. I personally met owners who had to pay gas, electricity and water to a tenant who didn't pay rent for 3 years. As soon as she left they went on Airbnb and didn't look back. Managing an Airbnb is not simple many people would prefer a long term tenant but it's just too risky.

golergka 10y ago

Why do you see this as something bad? Some people are willing to pay more than others for housing, so others have to move elsewhere; this is normal market at work, why would anyone want to stop it?

personlurking 10y ago
Because those willing to pay absurd prices are not locals, nor are they living here long-term, thus this causes locals and long-term residents to be pushed out of the city. Imagine being pushed out of your own city just because the market says tourists are more important than residents.
- golergka 10y ago
  You still haven't explained why this is bad. See, I don't have to imagine it: my neighbourhood is being gentrified, rent is going up all around, and I'll have to move soon. Not the beat thing ever, but since I'm being honestly outbid on an open market, I fail to see why would someone want to intervene and regulate this. Also, residents are more "important" than tourists, that's what you're trying to say? Why the hell? What does "important" even mean?
  - uola 10y ago
    Residents are the ones starting and working for businesses, creating new value and paying taxes long term. Portugal is one of the worst economies in Europe. A lot of people have already moved. Trying to survive on tourism is a shortsighted and will end badly.
- zanny 10y ago
  There is nothing to imagine, that is how markets operate. And it is how they have always operated. Hotels and tourist destinations are not built or preserved for your "visit it once and live there 30 years without going again" revenue. Unsurprisingly, money dictates land allocation. If you have the money to buy land (and in effect, tourists are buying inner city residential through airbnb) you can only resist economic reality so long. At that - how do you have claim to it being your city? Do you own it? If you own property in it, is someone evicting you from your own home? If you are renting, well, that's not owning. If your neighbors are deciding to sell or rent their homes at lucrative margins to tourists, why do you think you are in the right telling them they cannot do what they want with the property they own?

icebraining 10y ago

As someone who rents out rooms in Lisbon (not on AirBnB), I can assure you the minimum is not 300/month, nor are those rare. A five minute search finds multiple available rooms for <250€ - often with expenses included. I do agree there is cause for concern, but the knee-jerk attacks on AirBnB is silly. For example, there's not a single word in that article regarding the concerns of landlords in making long term rentals. When it takes two years, hundreds of euros and many lost working days to evict a non-paying tenant, is it any wonder that people prefer short term rentals? When you have a building falling to pieces after decades of rent-controlled tenants paying ridiculously low amounts (I know people paying 30€/m for a three bedroom apartment) and you can't afford to fix it, is it any wonder that you'll sell to foreign investors who can?

personlurking 10y ago
Among lots of "young" people I know (in their 20s and 30s), mostly foreigners living here, the consensus is definitely that 300 is the new norm. I've heard it time and time again from different kinds of people living in different neighborhoods in Lisbon. I, myself, am paying 300 (even though I would consider it a 250 euro room), and the landlord wishes to up the rent another 25 euro or so (he tried to get me to rent a smaller room so he could increase the price on mine). Among Portuguese young people, I've also heard many complaints about how hard it is to find a place that isn't a) way too much for what is being offered compared to previous years and b) in the outskirts of town. That being said, I am aware there are rooms for less than 300, but I'm more talking about rooms that aren't "shoeboxes", size-wise.
Lucadg 10y ago
same in Italy. Nobody wants to rent long term anymore and lose the apartment to someone who can't pay but can stay for a year or two. I personally met owners who had to pay gas, electricity and water to a tenant who didn't pay rent for 3 years. As soon as she left they went on Airbnb and didn't look back. Managing an Airbnb is not simple many people would prefer a long term tenant but it's just too risky.