4 ms·

Here in Dublin, Ireland, rents are exploding, mostly because of a severe shortage in apartments, and it's a fair question to ask if AirBnB is partially to blame

by trusche 10y ago

Here in Dublin, Ireland, rents are exploding, mostly because of a severe shortage in apartments, and it's a fair question to ask if AirBnB is partially to blame. From [1]: > The average rental value of a two-bed apartment in the city centre at €2,000 per month, less a management fee, would equate to the apartment being occupied for just 120 nights of the year through Airbnb. > Investors have confirmed that if correctly managed, the income can be double that of a long-term rental. (AirBnB disagrees [2]) As much as I like the idea of AirBnB, their impact on the housing market in any given city needs to be considered. Unfortunately the article doesn't mention that at all, focussing solely on tourism. [1] http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/booming-airbnb-adding-to-dublins-rent-squeeze-34715683.html http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property... [2] http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/airbnb-insists-home-hosting-is-not-taking-housing-off-market-1.2584950 http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/airbnb-insists...

apsec112 10y ago
I can't speak to Ireland, but here in the US, there's an extremely strong relationship between expensive apartments and a lack of new construction. Here's the graph: http://www.spur.org/sites/default/files/wysiwyg/asking.prices.png http://www.spur.org/sites/default/files/wysiwyg/asking.price... How difficult is it to build new housing in Dublin? Does the city allow new apartment buildings, or are most areas single family, detached residences only?
- trusche 10y ago
  It's complicated. There are height limitations for residential buildings in the city (lower than those for commercial ones), and there's no culture of apartment living here comparable to other European capitals I know. Dublin is sprawling with single family homes. There's a debate going on right now about higher density zoning and the like, but it will take time. Regulations to improve building standards have added to cost, and most developers seem to be in it for the quick buck (my opinion only) and are holding back right now because that's no longer (or not yet again) an option after the crash. http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/time-to-end-ireland-s-failed-developer-led-property-market-1.2645776 http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/time-to-end-irela...
  - mjevans 10y ago
    The market is clearly signaling that you've already run out of time.
yummyfajitas 10y ago
The obvious solution to a severe shortage in apartments is to build more. Why doesn't Ireland do this? Pigeonhole principle: if K people want to be in Ireland at any one time, and there are N < K apartments, K - N people will have a problem. All the folks criticizing AirBnB want to do is make sure they aren't the ones who face the problem.
- matthewmacleod 10y ago
  Not quite - Airbnb shifts demand from traditional tourist accommodation like hotels and guest houses into standard domestic units. I'm not arguing that this is necessarily bad, but it's really interesting to look at the reasons why this is happening and the negative effects it can have. Increasing domestic prices because of underutilisation is one.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    As I said: All the folks criticizing AirBnB want to do is make sure they aren't the ones who face the problem. Tourists are people too, and need a place to live. The folks in Barcelona just want to make sure it's the tourists, rather than them, who suffer from the housing shortage.
    - Symbiote 10y ago
      Tourists before AirBnB would simply not visit somewhere if the hotel price was beyond what they could afford. Is there any justification at all that could prioritise tourists over residents for living space?
      - YokoZar 10y ago
        Tourists are seen as a way to generate revenue for a city while not incurring the sorts of costs in services that residents do. Similar motivations cause cities to build office buildings without corresponding homes. Empirically it seems like cities value tourists over residents -- if cities actually wanted residents, they'd approve construction of housing for them.
moptar 10y ago
Any change in the housing market it bad for someone. Rents going down can cause owners to lose their homes. Rents going up upsets people who want the security of living in the same place but are't willing to pay for that luxury by buying their own house. More interesting is what the long term picture would look like if the AirBnB is left to carry on unimpeded. Whatever it is will surely be better for people in general. It might hurt some people who feel entitled and got caught by surprise, but that's how progress works. There are usually losers along with people overall being winners.
- jackweirdy 10y ago
  Not just those who aren't willing to pay - many (like me) aren't able to pay yet.
  - moptar 10y ago
    People who can't afford it shouldn't expect it to just be given to them. I spent a long time not being able to afford a house and when I couldn't afford rents, I simply moved elsewhere. I never imagined blaming some nebulous group for that inconvenience. It's just part of life.
nailer 10y ago
Here in London its illegal to AirBnB more than 160 days a year, but its very difficult to enforce - I'm typing this a few metres away from the 365-day a year airbnb next door (after being woken by a visitor who buzzed the the wrong house).
cm3 10y ago
> Here in Dublin, Ireland, rents are exploding, mostly because of a severe shortage in apartments[...] How bad is the shortage? I'm asking because Google has once again contacted me, this time for a position in Dublin. Or do they have their own housing for employees?
- trusche 10y ago
  It's getting pretty bad, and AFAIK, no they don't. You'll find a place with a Google salary I'm sure, but it won't be cheap. Feel free to contact me if you want some advice.
paulddraper 10y ago
Ten years ago, I never dreamed that more efficient resource utilization would be demonized.
hackuser 10y ago
> Here in Dublin, Ireland, rents are exploding, mostly because of a severe shortage in apartments, and it's a fair question to ask if AirBnB is partially to blame Perhaps we should see a pattern: The 'sharing economy' shifts power and wealth to those who own the assets, for which there is now greater demand and, due to resulting increased value, which are more costly to acquire.

by trusche 10y ago

apsec112 10y ago

I can't speak to Ireland, but here in the US, there's an extremely strong relationship between expensive apartments and a lack of new construction. Here's the graph: http://www.spur.org/sites/default/files/wysiwyg/asking.prices.png http://www.spur.org/sites/default/files/wysiwyg/asking.price... How difficult is it to build new housing in Dublin? Does the city allow new apartment buildings, or are most areas single family, detached residences only?

trusche 10y ago
It's complicated. There are height limitations for residential buildings in the city (lower than those for commercial ones), and there's no culture of apartment living here comparable to other European capitals I know. Dublin is sprawling with single family homes. There's a debate going on right now about higher density zoning and the like, but it will take time. Regulations to improve building standards have added to cost, and most developers seem to be in it for the quick buck (my opinion only) and are holding back right now because that's no longer (or not yet again) an option after the crash. http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/time-to-end-ireland-s-failed-developer-led-property-market-1.2645776 http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/time-to-end-irela...
- mjevans 10y ago
  The market is clearly signaling that you've already run out of time.

yummyfajitas 10y ago

The obvious solution to a severe shortage in apartments is to build more. Why doesn't Ireland do this? Pigeonhole principle: if K people want to be in Ireland at any one time, and there are N < K apartments, K - N people will have a problem. All the folks criticizing AirBnB want to do is make sure they aren't the ones who face the problem.

matthewmacleod 10y ago
Not quite - Airbnb shifts demand from traditional tourist accommodation like hotels and guest houses into standard domestic units. I'm not arguing that this is necessarily bad, but it's really interesting to look at the reasons why this is happening and the negative effects it can have. Increasing domestic prices because of underutilisation is one.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  As I said: All the folks criticizing AirBnB want to do is make sure they aren't the ones who face the problem. Tourists are people too, and need a place to live. The folks in Barcelona just want to make sure it's the tourists, rather than them, who suffer from the housing shortage.
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    Tourists before AirBnB would simply not visit somewhere if the hotel price was beyond what they could afford. Is there any justification at all that could prioritise tourists over residents for living space?
    - YokoZar 10y ago
      Tourists are seen as a way to generate revenue for a city while not incurring the sorts of costs in services that residents do. Similar motivations cause cities to build office buildings without corresponding homes. Empirically it seems like cities value tourists over residents -- if cities actually wanted residents, they'd approve construction of housing for them.

moptar 10y ago

Any change in the housing market it bad for someone. Rents going down can cause owners to lose their homes. Rents going up upsets people who want the security of living in the same place but are't willing to pay for that luxury by buying their own house. More interesting is what the long term picture would look like if the AirBnB is left to carry on unimpeded. Whatever it is will surely be better for people in general. It might hurt some people who feel entitled and got caught by surprise, but that's how progress works. There are usually losers along with people overall being winners.

jackweirdy 10y ago
Not just those who aren't willing to pay - many (like me) aren't able to pay yet.
- moptar 10y ago
  People who can't afford it shouldn't expect it to just be given to them. I spent a long time not being able to afford a house and when I couldn't afford rents, I simply moved elsewhere. I never imagined blaming some nebulous group for that inconvenience. It's just part of life.

nailer 10y ago

Here in London its illegal to AirBnB more than 160 days a year, but its very difficult to enforce - I'm typing this a few metres away from the 365-day a year airbnb next door (after being woken by a visitor who buzzed the the wrong house).

cm3 10y ago

> Here in Dublin, Ireland, rents are exploding, mostly because of a severe shortage in apartments[...] How bad is the shortage? I'm asking because Google has once again contacted me, this time for a position in Dublin. Or do they have their own housing for employees?

trusche 10y ago
It's getting pretty bad, and AFAIK, no they don't. You'll find a place with a Google salary I'm sure, but it won't be cheap. Feel free to contact me if you want some advice.

paulddraper 10y ago

Ten years ago, I never dreamed that more efficient resource utilization would be demonized.

hackuser 10y ago

> Here in Dublin, Ireland, rents are exploding, mostly because of a severe shortage in apartments, and it's a fair question to ask if AirBnB is partially to blame Perhaps we should see a pattern: The 'sharing economy' shifts power and wealth to those who own the assets, for which there is now greater demand and, due to resulting increased value, which are more costly to acquire.