14 ms·

The Bears Who Came to Town and Would Not Go Away

95 points by Thevet 10y ago

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
sandworm101 10y ago
>> Nikolai, an elderly pensioner, had just come out to walk his cat. That's basically all you need to know. An large old mammal tied to a smaller mammal = bear lunch. Do not blame a carnivore for doing what carnivores do. Walk in groups. Don't leash your cat. Make some noise. Move around. Don't sit down quietly on a bench. >> A person can be standing, gathering berries, and the bear can attack from behind. It’s easy game... Yes it is, but I suspect the bear (which eats berries far more than meat) is also trying to intimidate a competitor. This tale is like a spearfisher complaining about sharks.
- PhasmaFelis 10y ago
  "Never walk your dog, don't go outside alone, and for God's sake don't sit on benches" is not remotely practical advice. It sucks that these people have to deal with the fallout of irresponsible clear-cutting, but you can't ask people to turn off their lives like it's no big thing.
  - sandworm101 10y ago
    Lol. Did you read that this bench is also right beside some unsecured dumpsters? Clearcutting isn't the problem. >>Two bears feasted on watermelon rinds in the dumpster across from the Great Wall so many nights in a row that locals parked their cars nearby and waited for them to appear, hoping to make home movies. Not sitting on benches near piles of food is very practical. Not walking your CAT in bear country is too.
    - drdeca 10y ago
      Isn't the idea that, it wasn't bear country before that point? That is, there weren't bears going in the town?
    - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
      > Clearcutting isn't the problem. Going from no bear problem to "a rate of up to ten per day" in a few weeks is not normal. Unless the town had been carefully securing their garbage for years and suddenly, unilaterally stopped, there is some outside factor driving bears into town. > Not sitting on benches near piles of food is very practical. See above. They were roaming all over the town. > Not walking your CAT in bear country is too. I'm sorry, your words were: "That's basically all you need to know. An large old mammal tied to a smaller mammal = bear lunch." You're saying that people shouldn't take any animal out on a leash, ever. That's not reasonable. You're also ignoring the fact that neither the cat nor its owner were attacked. The first victim, as it happens, was walking a dog, which the bear ignored.
      - sandworm101 10y ago
        I never said anything about them being attacked. The fact that an old person was walking a cat so casually is evidence of a lack of bear awareness. It is evidence of a community acting in a manner that encourages bad bear behaviours. I live in bear country (BC). I see them almost every day. Seniors and others with with diminished mobility are encouraged not to walk alone wherever bears may be active. Sitting quietly is also a bad idea. People are told to make noise, to make their active presence known. Many hikers go so far as to carry "bear bells", even "bear bangers", to ensure bears don't become habituated. And bears eat cats all the time. A cat on a leash is like a popsicle on a stick to a bear.
        cududa 10y ago
        How are you still missing the point that bears were not previously in this region that's what the entire story is about
- pvaldes 10y ago
  The reverse situation is probably much more common. I have seen some videos from one of the main bear especialist in Norway, an american that had radiotracked about 800 bears in his life. Each year a few people is atacked in scandinavia and practically all attacks are to elk hunters by a bear previously shooted (deliberately or by mistake). Often there are also some hounds involved. In the video a bear surprised eating berries charge. The man stands in position and the bear move to one side in the last moment and run away. Not much unlike a gorilla. Is a common display. European bears are smaller, so in US could be different. The not selfie advice is relevant. Bears loathe to be tracked. If you see some bear traces walk away and don't follow it. In Spain there is a recent and very unusual case of a brown bear that charged against a man doing photos, broke his arm with a single strike of the claws, deliver some advertence "soft" bites in neck and face and then escaped. As in the other four cases registered in 25 years in Spain, the bear striked once and then tried to escape by any means. None of the five victims were killed, although some were seriously injured. A solution could be start feeding the black bears in the forest until the next year.
Waterluvian 10y ago
This is why conservation is important, even as a selfish act. Take away bear habitat and you have safety problem to deal with. And the bear patrol tax isn't cheap!
- sandworm101 10y ago
  This is eastern Russia. Acreage isn't the problem. These animals are being attracted to human settlements by food, what we call garbage. In all likelihood the bear population is higher than can be naturally supported due to the extra food being tossed at them by humans. Canada has just as many bears and has dealt with the problem through changes in our behavior. Problem bears are still often shot (far more humanely btw than in the OP) but attacks on humans are extremely rare.
  - Waterluvian 10y ago
    The article seems to suggest there's massive illegal logging problems that caused loss of habitat and food.
  - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
    I recommend you read the article. It's rather interesting and addressed your points.
- aaron695 10y ago
  Meh, you could easily just shoot them all. How about we stick with humans get great enjoyment knowing large environmental habitats exist as our selfish act.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- moptar 10y ago
  That's not why we do conservation. We do it because we don't want the bears and other species to become extinct. In ongoing cases of people vs large mammals, the people always win. This kind of thing can't be a long term problem. Eventually the bears will die back to a sustainable population living away from people.
khattam 10y ago
The people who are against shooting bears should be fed to bears and then the bears shot.
jacquesm 10y ago
In Canada there are some garbage dumps that have resident bears.
- dreamsofdragons 10y ago
  That's not a nice way to refer to Ottawa.
tim333 10y ago
The Guardian article on the same has video of the bears and people involved https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/04/russian-town-besieged-by-hungry-bears https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/04/russian-town-b...
andrewvijay 10y ago
"surveyed the scene, and decided that they needed a drink." - Exploded into laughter in public transit!
sidek 10y ago
Sounds like the residents/town didn't do enough to dissuade bears. I've been to Jasper, Canada, which is in the Rockies surrounded by forest, and the countermeasures they take to stop bears from coming to town are crazy. All garbage cans have special bear-proof lids, there is tons of education, etc. And it mostly works-- some bears come, but they don't perceive the town as a source of food.
- cushychicken 10y ago
  I wonder how helpful that would be. It sounds like the influx was due to a failure of their normal food sources; the bears sound like they were starving and desperate. Would they move on from the town if all the food sources were locked down? My experience growing up near bears in the western US was that they generally stayed far away from people whenever possible. The fact that they were in town at all is a sign of pretty dire straits for their food source.
  - fsociety 10y ago
    I grew up in the Jasper area, and we'd have bear traps placed all around the town, in forests. The bears loved to head in to town for some easy pickings of food. Often they'd be tranquilized if they became a problem, and then moved to a new area. In my personal opinion, I'd say they weren't necessarily starved for food but they would continue heading back to town because they were handled very carefully when encountered with a human. If they were put in a situation of harm, they'd be killed instead of being harmlessly tranquilized. It was fairly common to wake up in the middle of the night with a bear going through your garbage. The town's are fairly small and in close proximity with the forest. I think it's less about food supply and more about constant exposure to humans, easy access, and living in close proximity. For the most part, the bears were fairly harmless too. Any aggressive bear would be immediately killed.
    - cushychicken 10y ago
      Interesting that there's no mention of the normal amount of bear activity there.
naner 10y ago
This looks like it is about a similar area (Russia's far-east tiaga) as the Tiger book by John Vaillant. Similar story though with much different results: human activity basically drove a particular tiger to very wild and dangerous behavior.
peter303 10y ago
Colorado has a two strikes practice. If the bear didnt injure anybody it is captured, tagged and released hundreds of miles away. The second it is euthanized.
mlvljr 10y ago
What is that with these Russia / bears stories, good people of the West, haven't you got enough of your own? :)
neurotech1 10y ago
Sadly, the first part of this article sounds like something from The Simpsons. People seem to overreact to certain threats, but ignore that household accidents kill more people than bear attacks do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkV_ztynYDM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkV_ztynYDM
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  Maybe if we were constantly living among bears, bear attacks would kill more people.
jackgavigan 10y ago
> "What can we say about a bear that is running? It has no cap, hat, or handkerchief, right?” Unless his name is Paddington.

95 points by Thevet 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

>> Nikolai, an elderly pensioner, had just come out to walk his cat. That's basically all you need to know. An large old mammal tied to a smaller mammal = bear lunch. Do not blame a carnivore for doing what carnivores do. Walk in groups. Don't leash your cat. Make some noise. Move around. Don't sit down quietly on a bench. >> A person can be standing, gathering berries, and the bear can attack from behind. It’s easy game... Yes it is, but I suspect the bear (which eats berries far more than meat) is also trying to intimidate a competitor. This tale is like a spearfisher complaining about sharks.

PhasmaFelis 10y ago
"Never walk your dog, don't go outside alone, and for God's sake don't sit on benches" is not remotely practical advice. It sucks that these people have to deal with the fallout of irresponsible clear-cutting, but you can't ask people to turn off their lives like it's no big thing.
- sandworm101 10y ago
  Lol. Did you read that this bench is also right beside some unsecured dumpsters? Clearcutting isn't the problem. >>Two bears feasted on watermelon rinds in the dumpster across from the Great Wall so many nights in a row that locals parked their cars nearby and waited for them to appear, hoping to make home movies. Not sitting on benches near piles of food is very practical. Not walking your CAT in bear country is too.
  - drdeca 10y ago
    Isn't the idea that, it wasn't bear country before that point? That is, there weren't bears going in the town?
  - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
    > Clearcutting isn't the problem. Going from no bear problem to "a rate of up to ten per day" in a few weeks is not normal. Unless the town had been carefully securing their garbage for years and suddenly, unilaterally stopped, there is some outside factor driving bears into town. > Not sitting on benches near piles of food is very practical. See above. They were roaming all over the town. > Not walking your CAT in bear country is too. I'm sorry, your words were: "That's basically all you need to know. An large old mammal tied to a smaller mammal = bear lunch." You're saying that people shouldn't take any animal out on a leash, ever. That's not reasonable. You're also ignoring the fact that neither the cat nor its owner were attacked. The first victim, as it happens, was walking a dog, which the bear ignored.
    - sandworm101 10y ago
      I never said anything about them being attacked. The fact that an old person was walking a cat so casually is evidence of a lack of bear awareness. It is evidence of a community acting in a manner that encourages bad bear behaviours. I live in bear country (BC). I see them almost every day. Seniors and others with with diminished mobility are encouraged not to walk alone wherever bears may be active. Sitting quietly is also a bad idea. People are told to make noise, to make their active presence known. Many hikers go so far as to carry "bear bells", even "bear bangers", to ensure bears don't become habituated. And bears eat cats all the time. A cat on a leash is like a popsicle on a stick to a bear.
      - cududa 10y ago
        How are you still missing the point that bears were not previously in this region that's what the entire story is about
pvaldes 10y ago
The reverse situation is probably much more common. I have seen some videos from one of the main bear especialist in Norway, an american that had radiotracked about 800 bears in his life. Each year a few people is atacked in scandinavia and practically all attacks are to elk hunters by a bear previously shooted (deliberately or by mistake). Often there are also some hounds involved. In the video a bear surprised eating berries charge. The man stands in position and the bear move to one side in the last moment and run away. Not much unlike a gorilla. Is a common display. European bears are smaller, so in US could be different. The not selfie advice is relevant. Bears loathe to be tracked. If you see some bear traces walk away and don't follow it. In Spain there is a recent and very unusual case of a brown bear that charged against a man doing photos, broke his arm with a single strike of the claws, deliver some advertence "soft" bites in neck and face and then escaped. As in the other four cases registered in 25 years in Spain, the bear striked once and then tried to escape by any means. None of the five victims were killed, although some were seriously injured. A solution could be start feeding the black bears in the forest until the next year.

Waterluvian 10y ago

This is why conservation is important, even as a selfish act. Take away bear habitat and you have safety problem to deal with. And the bear patrol tax isn't cheap!

sandworm101 10y ago
This is eastern Russia. Acreage isn't the problem. These animals are being attracted to human settlements by food, what we call garbage. In all likelihood the bear population is higher than can be naturally supported due to the extra food being tossed at them by humans. Canada has just as many bears and has dealt with the problem through changes in our behavior. Problem bears are still often shot (far more humanely btw than in the OP) but attacks on humans are extremely rare.
- Waterluvian 10y ago
  The article seems to suggest there's massive illegal logging problems that caused loss of habitat and food.
- PhasmaFelis 10y ago
  I recommend you read the article. It's rather interesting and addressed your points.
aaron695 10y ago
Meh, you could easily just shoot them all. How about we stick with humans get great enjoyment knowing large environmental habitats exist as our selfish act.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
moptar 10y ago
That's not why we do conservation. We do it because we don't want the bears and other species to become extinct. In ongoing cases of people vs large mammals, the people always win. This kind of thing can't be a long term problem. Eventually the bears will die back to a sustainable population living away from people.

khattam 10y ago

The people who are against shooting bears should be fed to bears and then the bears shot.

jacquesm 10y ago

In Canada there are some garbage dumps that have resident bears.

dreamsofdragons 10y ago
That's not a nice way to refer to Ottawa.

tim333 10y ago

The Guardian article on the same has video of the bears and people involved https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/04/russian-town-besieged-by-hungry-bears https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/04/russian-town-b...

andrewvijay 10y ago

"surveyed the scene, and decided that they needed a drink." - Exploded into laughter in public transit!

sidek 10y ago

Sounds like the residents/town didn't do enough to dissuade bears. I've been to Jasper, Canada, which is in the Rockies surrounded by forest, and the countermeasures they take to stop bears from coming to town are crazy. All garbage cans have special bear-proof lids, there is tons of education, etc. And it mostly works-- some bears come, but they don't perceive the town as a source of food.

cushychicken 10y ago
I wonder how helpful that would be. It sounds like the influx was due to a failure of their normal food sources; the bears sound like they were starving and desperate. Would they move on from the town if all the food sources were locked down? My experience growing up near bears in the western US was that they generally stayed far away from people whenever possible. The fact that they were in town at all is a sign of pretty dire straits for their food source.
- fsociety 10y ago
  I grew up in the Jasper area, and we'd have bear traps placed all around the town, in forests. The bears loved to head in to town for some easy pickings of food. Often they'd be tranquilized if they became a problem, and then moved to a new area. In my personal opinion, I'd say they weren't necessarily starved for food but they would continue heading back to town because they were handled very carefully when encountered with a human. If they were put in a situation of harm, they'd be killed instead of being harmlessly tranquilized. It was fairly common to wake up in the middle of the night with a bear going through your garbage. The town's are fairly small and in close proximity with the forest. I think it's less about food supply and more about constant exposure to humans, easy access, and living in close proximity. For the most part, the bears were fairly harmless too. Any aggressive bear would be immediately killed.
  - cushychicken 10y ago
    Interesting that there's no mention of the normal amount of bear activity there.

naner 10y ago

This looks like it is about a similar area (Russia's far-east tiaga) as the Tiger book by John Vaillant. Similar story though with much different results: human activity basically drove a particular tiger to very wild and dangerous behavior.

peter303 10y ago

Colorado has a two strikes practice. If the bear didnt injure anybody it is captured, tagged and released hundreds of miles away. The second it is euthanized.

mlvljr 10y ago

What is that with these Russia / bears stories, good people of the West, haven't you got enough of your own? :)

neurotech1 10y ago

Sadly, the first part of this article sounds like something from The Simpsons. People seem to overreact to certain threats, but ignore that household accidents kill more people than bear attacks do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkV_ztynYDM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkV_ztynYDM

thaumasiotes 10y ago
Maybe if we were constantly living among bears, bear attacks would kill more people.

jackgavigan 10y ago

> "What can we say about a bear that is running? It has no cap, hat, or handkerchief, right?” Unless his name is Paddington.