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True, the BrExit echoes the feeling of a working class who have been marginalized by the leadership who said they would represent the will of the people. True

True, the BrExit echoes the feeling of a working class who have been marginalized by the leadership who said they would represent the will of the people. True of Trump supporters and Sanders supporters. I spent a bit of time reading about the political and media elites in Britain ignoring the plight of the working class. 1. Apparently, the British people never had a referendum to join the EU. The elites decided for them. 2. Unlike the leadership of our "union" the United States, the leadership of the EU have not been given a mandate to lead by the voters. 3. 20 years ago there were 0.9 million immigrants in the UK, now 3.3 million. 4. Prime Minster Cameron said he would reduce the yearly 330,000 immigration rate to 10,000 or so and he broke his word. Had he done what he said he'd do, BrExit may not have (probably?) would not have happened. 5. Apparently these immigrants get four years of social support. The social systems are stressed as is the National Health Service. Of course, the elites can choose to use the private Harley Street doctors, something the working class would be unable to do. 6. Cameron did not have to call the BrExit referendum, but chose to call it because of his hubris thinking that it could not possibly win. The British political elite like their American counterparts have refused to hear the suffering of their citizens. They have been marginalized by elites who lack empathy. Instead of listening to the voters, the political and media elites simply berate those who do respond such as Trump. They call Trump a racist because he is against illegal immigration. He has never said he is against Mexicans who have legally immigrated to the US. In the US, the media elite also refuses to use the correct phrasing of illegal immigrant and using the term "undocumented" which is bad reporting because the correct term is illegal.

tremon 10y ago
Unlike the leadership of our "union" the United States, the leadership of the EU have not been given a mandate to lead by the voters. Yes and no. The leadership of the EU (council) is composed of the leadership of its members. The controlling house (EP) is voted directly. The only part that isn't chosen directly is the commission (EC), and those members are nominated by the council and vetted by the EP. But the EU indeed does not have a mandate to lead. The EU proposes treaties, not legislation. It is up to the national parliaments to implement legislation that meets the EU treaties. The social systems are stressed as is the National Health Service So are those in the other EU countries. Maybe it has something to do with a global financial crisis that started almost a decade ago? However, as many have pointed out even before the vote, the EU migrants are responsible for only a small part of the strain in the NHS: https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-immigration-and-pressure-nhs/ https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-immigration-and-pressure-nhs/ "in 2014, migration from the EU added £160 million in additional costs for the NHS across the UK [..] The same technique suggests that £1.4 billion in additional costs were caused by other changes in the number and age of people in the UK" "immigrants from the European Economic Area made a more positive contribution than UK natives—and a far more positive contribution than immigrants from outside the EEA" "The UK paid £674 million [in heathcare costs] to other countries, while receiving just £49 million in return. [The NHS is] simply failing to charge when it is supposed to—recouping only a fraction of what should be around £340m from other countries." Cameron did not have to call the BrExit referendum Yes and no. Yes, he had to because it was a campaign promise. Many say that it was this very promise (to hold a brexit referendum) that gave him the election victory at all. No, he did not have to make that promise during the election campaign, but he did anyway, partly to win over voters, partly to soothe anti-EU voices in his own party.
- davidf18 10y ago
  The elites who made up the EU did not want to give EU members the mandate to elect the leadership of the EU. It is semantics to say that the EU only proposes treaties and it is the up to the individual countries to pass the legislation. The point is that an unelected body, a body appointed by elites who appear to be clueless about the feelings of the citizens of the EU, dictates policy that has to be enforced by member states. For example, PM Cameron wanted to keep his word about reducing the number of immigrants to 10,000 per year from 333,000 but he was not allowed to because of EU leadership who was unelected. Offices in the EU should be elected by the people just as they are in the United States. The additional burden on the social services was caused by the increased number of immigrants from 0.9 million 20 years ago to 3.3 million today. The original member states of the EU when Britain first joined were by and large of similar economic wealth to Britain. But then the EU started adding much poorer member states from the former Soviet Union (eg Eastern Europe) and it is these immigrants that lowered the wage rates in Britain (Microeconomics) by competing with Brits for low-skilled jobs and at the same time created an enormous burden on social services which paid for four years for these uneducated immigrants. The increased NHS costs due to immigration would be about £6 billion. There are 3.3 million immigrants out of a total British population of 64 million and an NHS budget of £115 billion. To say that immigrants added only £160 million to the NHS budget, or a mere 1% increase simply isn't credible. Someone is fudging the numbers. Readers of HN are in a position to challenge numbers fed to them and since I reported that there is 3.3 million immigrants and that the population of Britain is around 60 million, it should have felt wrong to see that the increase for immigrants, 5% of the population would only be £160 million. The NHS budget is £115 billion so 5% of that would be about £6 billion. Clearly this "facts site" that you are quoting is fudging their numbers and probably shouldn't be trusted for anything. As mentioned earlier, the people should have been able to decide whether they wanted to remain members of the EU. The Elites clearly didn't want them to decide. Regardless of PM Cameron's reasoning for calling the referendum, he and other elites had the hubris to think that they were right and that they could not possibly lose. It simply shows how out of touch the elites are with the will of the people whom they are supposed to represent. Similarly the "rise of Trump" and that of Sanders was caused by the hubris of the Republican and Democratic elite who thought they could use dollars and connections to dictate policy instead of realizing that American is supposed to be a democracy. Representative Eric Canter, the second most powerful person in the House of Representatives lost the primary to a political unknown -- an event which "could never happen." The reason is that he simply did not listen to his constituents who were against immigrants who broke the law to stay in the US. His constituents were against illegal immigration. One might have thought that the Republicans would have learned from Cantor's loss, but they had the hubris to ignore this clear warning sign that people do not want illegal immigration. Jeb Bush, Rubio, were for illegal immigration. If Jeb Bush had listened to the voters and campaigned against illegal immigration, if he had spoke up about the export of factory jobs out of the country as Trump did when Carrier air conditions closed an Indiana factory and moved the jobs to Mexico, then he probably would have been the Republican candidate. It was Bush's hubris, that of Rubio, Paul Ryan, and other Republican leadership that they could ignore the voters that created Trump. Similarly, it was the hubris PM Cameron and the other British Elite that had the led to ignoring the will of the voters even after he had agreed to reduce immigration to 10,000 from 333,000 that to the BrExit situation.

tremon 10y ago

Unlike the leadership of our "union" the United States, the leadership of the EU have not been given a mandate to lead by the voters. Yes and no. The leadership of the EU (council) is composed of the leadership of its members. The controlling house (EP) is voted directly. The only part that isn't chosen directly is the commission (EC), and those members are nominated by the council and vetted by the EP. But the EU indeed does not have a mandate to lead. The EU proposes treaties, not legislation. It is up to the national parliaments to implement legislation that meets the EU treaties. The social systems are stressed as is the National Health Service So are those in the other EU countries. Maybe it has something to do with a global financial crisis that started almost a decade ago? However, as many have pointed out even before the vote, the EU migrants are responsible for only a small part of the strain in the NHS: https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-immigration-and-pressure-nhs/ https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-immigration-and-pressure-nhs/ "in 2014, migration from the EU added £160 million in additional costs for the NHS across the UK [..] The same technique suggests that £1.4 billion in additional costs were caused by other changes in the number and age of people in the UK" "immigrants from the European Economic Area made a more positive contribution than UK natives—and a far more positive contribution than immigrants from outside the EEA" "The UK paid £674 million [in heathcare costs] to other countries, while receiving just £49 million in return. [The NHS is] simply failing to charge when it is supposed to—recouping only a fraction of what should be around £340m from other countries." Cameron did not have to call the BrExit referendum Yes and no. Yes, he had to because it was a campaign promise. Many say that it was this very promise (to hold a brexit referendum) that gave him the election victory at all. No, he did not have to make that promise during the election campaign, but he did anyway, partly to win over voters, partly to soothe anti-EU voices in his own party.

davidf18 10y ago
The elites who made up the EU did not want to give EU members the mandate to elect the leadership of the EU. It is semantics to say that the EU only proposes treaties and it is the up to the individual countries to pass the legislation. The point is that an unelected body, a body appointed by elites who appear to be clueless about the feelings of the citizens of the EU, dictates policy that has to be enforced by member states. For example, PM Cameron wanted to keep his word about reducing the number of immigrants to 10,000 per year from 333,000 but he was not allowed to because of EU leadership who was unelected. Offices in the EU should be elected by the people just as they are in the United States. The additional burden on the social services was caused by the increased number of immigrants from 0.9 million 20 years ago to 3.3 million today. The original member states of the EU when Britain first joined were by and large of similar economic wealth to Britain. But then the EU started adding much poorer member states from the former Soviet Union (eg Eastern Europe) and it is these immigrants that lowered the wage rates in Britain (Microeconomics) by competing with Brits for low-skilled jobs and at the same time created an enormous burden on social services which paid for four years for these uneducated immigrants. The increased NHS costs due to immigration would be about £6 billion. There are 3.3 million immigrants out of a total British population of 64 million and an NHS budget of £115 billion. To say that immigrants added only £160 million to the NHS budget, or a mere 1% increase simply isn't credible. Someone is fudging the numbers. Readers of HN are in a position to challenge numbers fed to them and since I reported that there is 3.3 million immigrants and that the population of Britain is around 60 million, it should have felt wrong to see that the increase for immigrants, 5% of the population would only be £160 million. The NHS budget is £115 billion so 5% of that would be about £6 billion. Clearly this "facts site" that you are quoting is fudging their numbers and probably shouldn't be trusted for anything. As mentioned earlier, the people should have been able to decide whether they wanted to remain members of the EU. The Elites clearly didn't want them to decide. Regardless of PM Cameron's reasoning for calling the referendum, he and other elites had the hubris to think that they were right and that they could not possibly lose. It simply shows how out of touch the elites are with the will of the people whom they are supposed to represent. Similarly the "rise of Trump" and that of Sanders was caused by the hubris of the Republican and Democratic elite who thought they could use dollars and connections to dictate policy instead of realizing that American is supposed to be a democracy. Representative Eric Canter, the second most powerful person in the House of Representatives lost the primary to a political unknown -- an event which "could never happen." The reason is that he simply did not listen to his constituents who were against immigrants who broke the law to stay in the US. His constituents were against illegal immigration. One might have thought that the Republicans would have learned from Cantor's loss, but they had the hubris to ignore this clear warning sign that people do not want illegal immigration. Jeb Bush, Rubio, were for illegal immigration. If Jeb Bush had listened to the voters and campaigned against illegal immigration, if he had spoke up about the export of factory jobs out of the country as Trump did when Carrier air conditions closed an Indiana factory and moved the jobs to Mexico, then he probably would have been the Republican candidate. It was Bush's hubris, that of Rubio, Paul Ryan, and other Republican leadership that they could ignore the voters that created Trump. Similarly, it was the hubris PM Cameron and the other British Elite that had the led to ignoring the will of the voters even after he had agreed to reduce immigration to 10,000 from 333,000 that to the BrExit situation.