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I am British, and I socialise with a whole host of young Brits who voted leave. A whole host of educated Engineers - software, civil, mech. A handful of NQT's,

I am British, and I socialise with a whole host of young Brits who voted leave. A whole host of educated Engineers - software, civil, mech. A handful of NQT's, nurses, vets, doctors, and then a spattering of assorted jobs at large companies from banks to telecoms to charities to sales. These are people I talk to one on one about all kinds of different issues - mostly philisophocal, rarely political - and they all had a few small things in common with the EU debate: * a certainty that the UK is dying. There is less and less value here, and continuing with the current setup spells for a long slow death. * an outright distrust of the political class and the media class. Most can cite cases where they have been outright knowingly lied to in ways most wouldn't realise. * a feeling of betrayal by those screaming remain and insulting anyone who disagrees. These are people who were often close friends who just weren't the kind to get into the discussions we enjoyed. So the obvious thing for these people to do? Vote leave. We can start the fight now and possibly survive, or delay it and definitely die. Why didn't they talk about it? They did. Just in places where there is no audience, only participants.

theoh 10y ago
Social capital is a form of intangible value, as is cultural capital. The "technical middle class" (not my terminology) in the UK is usually described as relatively lacking both of these things for a group of its economic status: "Members of the class report the lowest number of social contacts of any of the classes, though these do tend to be high status, probably mostly other professional experts. It is relatively culturally disengaged with both highbrow and emerging culture." (Wikipedia) From what you say I'm guessing you don't see the service sector as a viable form of "value" in the UK's economy, and maybe you also don't think of culture (creativity in the arts, or heritage and museums) as a form of renewable and intangible value? Whether that can support the UK entirely is another matter. It's also a matter of socialization in the sociological sense. This is a fascinating concept for the slightly alienated among us to consider(!), even if you disregard what sociologists do with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialization
- Normal_gaussian 10y ago
  The arts are a source of renewable and intangible value. This is well known and a cornerstone of the life I live. I would list my own interests but it would be largely masturbatory to do so. Unfortunately the growth and sustenance of British culture is largely hamstrung by the London centric governance of the last forty years. In many ways the entire brexit can be seen as an anti-London situation (everywhere but London and Scotland vote out, Scotland are on the SNP line who are anti-London). Know this. The best and the brightest all left the county I grew up in. They are told by their new peers that they should look down upon the places they came from. There should be no surprise that when my peers write verse it doesn't dream of home or that when they colour canvas it doesn't reveal our fells. But they will accompany to the local great garden, and sit upon the grass, and talk of love, confusion, hope, and futures.
tigershark 10y ago
I hope that you're really happy of the outcome of your vote. You destroyed uk and global economy, even if you still Don't realise it. A nation with narrow minded people that cannot understand the simple consequences of their actions will not have the most happy outcome.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- lifeisstillgood 10y ago
  I think the parent post did give reasons for his vote, rational and reasonable ones. I disagree with them mostly and voted a different way, but if one vote in one small country can destroy the global economy then it was in pretty bad shape anyway. Lehman Brothers would not have caused meltdown in a financially secure global system. We must respect our democratic outcome and turn it to the best advantage of everyone. Perhaps a more democratic Europe. It seems a goal we can get behind. Edit: ok he did not say how he voted only "friends of his".
  - Normal_gaussian 10y ago
    I didn't like the tone of the reply I gave to a sister comment of lifeisstillgood's comment and have since deleted it. In it I pointed out that I had not specified whether I had voted, or who for. This is what his edit refers to and was, like the rest of the comment, an unnecessary level of pedantry. Of course I voted the same way as the friends I had been discussing this with for years.
    - lifeisstillgood 10y ago
      Rereading this again, I am still annoyed by the pedantry argument. We try to have discussions and conversations here, try to be precise to make that process clearer - and dismissing such attempts is not helping the goals. So please, don't make throw away dismissals. And be ways of assuming people of course vote the same way as their friends.
- 10y ago
arcanus 10y ago
> Why didn't they talk about it? They did. Just in places where there is no audience, only participants Isn't it interesting how many forms of public forums are not providing a greater venue for the exchange of ideas? As you implied, because of the one sided vitriol and group think on many public social media platforms, it tends to lead to suppression of dialogue. As a professional, I am very worried about a ill-advised comment on social media having lasting consequences for my career. So I tend to avoid anything controversial. For brexit, I've certainly held my tongue for fear of being permanently branded a racist by my colleagues. Chilling, when you think about it.
- tremon 10y ago
  because of the one sided vitriol and group think I can assure you, the vitriol was two-sided. Remain campaigners against Leave voters, Leave campaigners against non-British EU citizens.
  - Normal_gaussian 10y ago
    That is very much two one sided situations.

theoh 10y ago

Social capital is a form of intangible value, as is cultural capital. The "technical middle class" (not my terminology) in the UK is usually described as relatively lacking both of these things for a group of its economic status: "Members of the class report the lowest number of social contacts of any of the classes, though these do tend to be high status, probably mostly other professional experts. It is relatively culturally disengaged with both highbrow and emerging culture." (Wikipedia) From what you say I'm guessing you don't see the service sector as a viable form of "value" in the UK's economy, and maybe you also don't think of culture (creativity in the arts, or heritage and museums) as a form of renewable and intangible value? Whether that can support the UK entirely is another matter. It's also a matter of socialization in the sociological sense. This is a fascinating concept for the slightly alienated among us to consider(!), even if you disregard what sociologists do with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialization

Normal_gaussian 10y ago
The arts are a source of renewable and intangible value. This is well known and a cornerstone of the life I live. I would list my own interests but it would be largely masturbatory to do so. Unfortunately the growth and sustenance of British culture is largely hamstrung by the London centric governance of the last forty years. In many ways the entire brexit can be seen as an anti-London situation (everywhere but London and Scotland vote out, Scotland are on the SNP line who are anti-London). Know this. The best and the brightest all left the county I grew up in. They are told by their new peers that they should look down upon the places they came from. There should be no surprise that when my peers write verse it doesn't dream of home or that when they colour canvas it doesn't reveal our fells. But they will accompany to the local great garden, and sit upon the grass, and talk of love, confusion, hope, and futures.

tigershark 10y ago

I hope that you're really happy of the outcome of your vote. You destroyed uk and global economy, even if you still Don't realise it. A nation with narrow minded people that cannot understand the simple consequences of their actions will not have the most happy outcome.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
lifeisstillgood 10y ago
I think the parent post did give reasons for his vote, rational and reasonable ones. I disagree with them mostly and voted a different way, but if one vote in one small country can destroy the global economy then it was in pretty bad shape anyway. Lehman Brothers would not have caused meltdown in a financially secure global system. We must respect our democratic outcome and turn it to the best advantage of everyone. Perhaps a more democratic Europe. It seems a goal we can get behind. Edit: ok he did not say how he voted only "friends of his".
- Normal_gaussian 10y ago
  I didn't like the tone of the reply I gave to a sister comment of lifeisstillgood's comment and have since deleted it. In it I pointed out that I had not specified whether I had voted, or who for. This is what his edit refers to and was, like the rest of the comment, an unnecessary level of pedantry. Of course I voted the same way as the friends I had been discussing this with for years.
  - lifeisstillgood 10y ago
    Rereading this again, I am still annoyed by the pedantry argument. We try to have discussions and conversations here, try to be precise to make that process clearer - and dismissing such attempts is not helping the goals. So please, don't make throw away dismissals. And be ways of assuming people of course vote the same way as their friends.
10y ago

arcanus 10y ago

> Why didn't they talk about it? They did. Just in places where there is no audience, only participants Isn't it interesting how many forms of public forums are not providing a greater venue for the exchange of ideas? As you implied, because of the one sided vitriol and group think on many public social media platforms, it tends to lead to suppression of dialogue. As a professional, I am very worried about a ill-advised comment on social media having lasting consequences for my career. So I tend to avoid anything controversial. For brexit, I've certainly held my tongue for fear of being permanently branded a racist by my colleagues. Chilling, when you think about it.

tremon 10y ago
because of the one sided vitriol and group think I can assure you, the vitriol was two-sided. Remain campaigners against Leave voters, Leave campaigners against non-British EU citizens.
- Normal_gaussian 10y ago
  That is very much two one sided situations.