9 ms·

An important part of the campaign against the independence was that they would be out of the EU, isn't? The irony is really big here

by Oletros 10y ago

anexprogrammer 10y ago
I think Cameron was absolutely certain the result would be remain. Unfortunately for him, the nation and the Tory party it wasn't.
- Asooka 10y ago
  It might be good for them to cool off for a couple of decades and rejoin. It's not like Britain is dependent on EU subsidies or anything.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    It's subtle. The UK is a net contributor to the EU, but it also has the financial center of the EU in London. On top of that some areas of the UK are net recipients of EU money, others are contributors. Losing the financial center alone may already tip the balance out of favor, and for some areas (notably Scotland) the loss will be much larger. Back of the envelope has the UK in worse shape without the EU and access to their market than with. Regardless of what will happen now, the UK will lose the financial center (it will most likely end up in Frankfurt am Main), Scotland will secede from the UK and will apply (assuming a majority votes for that proposal) to the EU as an independent entity, much like Ireland. The one thing this referendum has already achieved is that the position of the UK on the world stage is marginalized further.
    - noir_lord 10y ago
      Simply put, London hands over money to the EU which hands most of it back to regions that London wouldn't have handed the money to in the first place (Scotland, North of England, Wales...somewhat ironically since many of them voted leave..). I think the reason we are no longer part of the EU is in part bad PR on the part of the EU on what it actually did. Which is why "what is the EU/what does the EU do" type queries have trended on google after the referendum. People suddenly wondering how fucked/non-fucked we are since the result.
    - BrutallyHonest 10y ago
      And of course, Hong Kong and Singapore will also stop being financial centres, since they haven't been in the EU to begin with.
      - matthewmacleod 10y ago
        That's disingenuous and you know it. One of the main attractions of London as a banking centre is its EU membership. Sure, there are others, but it seems extremely likely that companies will relocate because they judge access to the EU market as more important.
        BrutallyHonest 10y ago
        Possibly, although I wouldn't rush it. Worth seeing which countries will remain in the EU by the time UK finalises the exit.
        gggggggggg 10y ago
        There might not be a UK by the time the exit is finalized, that is the brutally honest subject of this thread.
        _9MOTHER9HORSE 10y ago
        There might not be an EU by the time Scotland gets a vote to secede and begins an application to join the EU. Fascinating time to be alive.
        cygx 10y ago
        There might not be an EU by the time Scotland gets a vote to secede Doubtful: As long as France and Germany are on board, the EU will survive in some fashion. The comment[1] of German economist Max Otte[2] regarding the British vote? Good riddance, now we can stop accomodating UK sensibilities. Also remember, when the UK wanted to join the EEC? De Gaulle sent them packing twice... [1] http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/otte-interview-zu-brexit-101.html http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/otte-interview-zu-brexit... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Otte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Otte
matthewmacleod 10y ago
Quite the case. One of the key reasons that the Scottish referendum in 2014 was not won was because of uncertainty about continued EU membership and the currency that the country would use. To make that decision and less than two years later be dragged out of the EU anyway has pissed off a bunch of people. Lots of noise coming from former 'no' voters and media about how they feel misled. And now that Scotland has resoundingly - 24% margin! - voters to remain in the EU, it seems there is a bit of a mandate. I am not enjoying the atmosphere here at the moment. This whole thing has been a colossal fuckup which has permanently damaged the UK.
- nolok 10y ago
  > This whole thing has been a colossal fuckup which has permanently damaged the UK. For me that's the biggest take away from it; half of the scots voters said they wanted out of that union, which usually means "we don't feel that country represents us properly". Now, that's not irreparable and you have a perfect, even stronger example in recent times with Quebec and Canada. The solution was "simple"; listen to them and go their way, if only a little. Show them that you care about them being in. Laugh all you want about the French labels everywhere in Canada but they're basically Canada saying "ok Quebec, we need you, let's stay together". With that Brexit vote, the UK has thrown away one of the biggest thing scots were sure about; they wanted to be in the EU. Even if they manage to not lose them through independence, it has been marked in the sand that England decides and Scotland follows, even if they really don't want to. (I mean 68% for remain ? I'm not sure any other EU country would get that at the moment, maybe Germany)
danmaz74 10y ago
That's correct. The UK, inside the EU, could have vetoed the admission of Scotland to spite them. But now, that's not the case anymore...
- nolok 10y ago
  If I remember well even the EU said "well, quick admission is not certain, you would have to apply like any one else", then there was the Spanish question, the currency choice, ... Scotland wanted in the EU but weren't sure they would be able to be properly and quickly outside the UK, while staying in was the safe way to keep EU membership. Now they know for sure they can only be in by being outside the UK.

An important part of the campaign against the independence was that they would be out of the EU, isn't? The irony is really big here

by Oletros 10y ago

An important part of the campaign against the independence was that they would be out of the EU, isn't? The irony is really big here

anexprogrammer 10y ago

I think Cameron was absolutely certain the result would be remain. Unfortunately for him, the nation and the Tory party it wasn't.

Asooka 10y ago
It might be good for them to cool off for a couple of decades and rejoin. It's not like Britain is dependent on EU subsidies or anything.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  It's subtle. The UK is a net contributor to the EU, but it also has the financial center of the EU in London. On top of that some areas of the UK are net recipients of EU money, others are contributors. Losing the financial center alone may already tip the balance out of favor, and for some areas (notably Scotland) the loss will be much larger. Back of the envelope has the UK in worse shape without the EU and access to their market than with. Regardless of what will happen now, the UK will lose the financial center (it will most likely end up in Frankfurt am Main), Scotland will secede from the UK and will apply (assuming a majority votes for that proposal) to the EU as an independent entity, much like Ireland. The one thing this referendum has already achieved is that the position of the UK on the world stage is marginalized further.
  - noir_lord 10y ago
    Simply put, London hands over money to the EU which hands most of it back to regions that London wouldn't have handed the money to in the first place (Scotland, North of England, Wales...somewhat ironically since many of them voted leave..). I think the reason we are no longer part of the EU is in part bad PR on the part of the EU on what it actually did. Which is why "what is the EU/what does the EU do" type queries have trended on google after the referendum. People suddenly wondering how fucked/non-fucked we are since the result.
  - BrutallyHonest 10y ago
    And of course, Hong Kong and Singapore will also stop being financial centres, since they haven't been in the EU to begin with.
    - matthewmacleod 10y ago
      That's disingenuous and you know it. One of the main attractions of London as a banking centre is its EU membership. Sure, there are others, but it seems extremely likely that companies will relocate because they judge access to the EU market as more important.
      - BrutallyHonest 10y ago
        Possibly, although I wouldn't rush it. Worth seeing which countries will remain in the EU by the time UK finalises the exit.
        gggggggggg 10y ago
        There might not be a UK by the time the exit is finalized, that is the brutally honest subject of this thread.
        _9MOTHER9HORSE 10y ago
        There might not be an EU by the time Scotland gets a vote to secede and begins an application to join the EU. Fascinating time to be alive.
        cygx 10y ago
        There might not be an EU by the time Scotland gets a vote to secede Doubtful: As long as France and Germany are on board, the EU will survive in some fashion. The comment[1] of German economist Max Otte[2] regarding the British vote? Good riddance, now we can stop accomodating UK sensibilities. Also remember, when the UK wanted to join the EEC? De Gaulle sent them packing twice... [1] http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/otte-interview-zu-brexit-101.html http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/otte-interview-zu-brexit... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Otte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Otte

matthewmacleod 10y ago

Quite the case. One of the key reasons that the Scottish referendum in 2014 was not won was because of uncertainty about continued EU membership and the currency that the country would use. To make that decision and less than two years later be dragged out of the EU anyway has pissed off a bunch of people. Lots of noise coming from former 'no' voters and media about how they feel misled. And now that Scotland has resoundingly - 24% margin! - voters to remain in the EU, it seems there is a bit of a mandate. I am not enjoying the atmosphere here at the moment. This whole thing has been a colossal fuckup which has permanently damaged the UK.

nolok 10y ago
> This whole thing has been a colossal fuckup which has permanently damaged the UK. For me that's the biggest take away from it; half of the scots voters said they wanted out of that union, which usually means "we don't feel that country represents us properly". Now, that's not irreparable and you have a perfect, even stronger example in recent times with Quebec and Canada. The solution was "simple"; listen to them and go their way, if only a little. Show them that you care about them being in. Laugh all you want about the French labels everywhere in Canada but they're basically Canada saying "ok Quebec, we need you, let's stay together". With that Brexit vote, the UK has thrown away one of the biggest thing scots were sure about; they wanted to be in the EU. Even if they manage to not lose them through independence, it has been marked in the sand that England decides and Scotland follows, even if they really don't want to. (I mean 68% for remain ? I'm not sure any other EU country would get that at the moment, maybe Germany)

danmaz74 10y ago

That's correct. The UK, inside the EU, could have vetoed the admission of Scotland to spite them. But now, that's not the case anymore...

nolok 10y ago
If I remember well even the EU said "well, quick admission is not certain, you would have to apply like any one else", then there was the Spanish question, the currency choice, ... Scotland wanted in the EU but weren't sure they would be able to be properly and quickly outside the UK, while staying in was the safe way to keep EU membership. Now they know for sure they can only be in by being outside the UK.