9 ms·

The timing of this as the switchover of Costco cards from Amex to Citi is happening certainly suggests a scaling problem regardless of the "updating its systems

The timing of this as the switchover of Costco cards from Amex to Citi is happening certainly suggests a scaling problem regardless of the "updating its systems" excuse. I've heard Amex blamed for losing the Costco deal, but given Amex's superlative customer service and Citi's less-than-optimal reputation, maybe Costco will turn out to be the bigger loser.

pokstad 10y ago
My experiences going from Costco Amex to Costco Citibank: * Fraud protection learning seems to be reset from the old Amex history so I've had a regular purchase (sushi joint) get flagged. * Haven't found the ability to add spouse to web based account management. * New card issued has smart chip in it, which is a pain at most retailers since their readers require "eating" the card and take longer payment processing time before the card is ejected. So basically my older Amex was more convenient while using "inferior" tech. * Costco gas pumps seem to be updated with new Visa prompts for cards. I wonder what kind of hassle it was to update that system. * Apple Pay has a hard time recognizing my card with camera input. I had to manually enter information.
- sbierwagen 10y ago
  EMV (chip) cards are far, far more secure than magstripe cards. It's a tradeoff I'm happy to make, since my card number's been stolen 3 times in the last two years.
  - cplease 10y ago
    How are the EMV chip + signature cards in USA being far, far more secure? User can just swipe and sign a stolen card same as always. Most retailers stll either incapable of using them or very forgiving as to signatures. Card can be duplicated with the strip and without the chip, then used as a regular legacy card (until those become uncommon). Finally, they can just steal the chip + signature cared, use the chip and they can still sign the slip and use it sama as ever.
    - madeofpalk 10y ago
      The key here is chip + signature, which has been removed in countries that have advanced their payment processing. Here in Australia you actually haven't been able to sign for a transaction for the past 2-ish years.
      - cplease 10y ago
        True, but the story is about glitches with Citigroup USA. pokstad is referring to Costco Citi cards in the USA. Some USA issues will allow you to SET a pin on chipcards (rarely by default), but they are not REQUIRED at the POS by any retailers in the USA. None will, because that's not the industry agreement standard and would lock out the majority of consumers. The adoption has been a giant clusterfuck. Most retailers are still taking stripe only. It's the weakest link. Until retailers stop accepting stripes and chip + signature, there's no need to steal the PIN. Hell, it's 2016 and I'm still encountering retailers who end up having to key in the card, or in a couple of cases still do offline processing with manual carbon-slip imprints. Our shitty American cards affect the rest of the world too. Traveling to Europe over the past decade+ until 2015 I apologize for my unexpectedly chipless card everywhere I went (never had much trouble using it though); same with Canada up to present. They all have chip+PIN, but our cards go through without and spit out a receipt with a signature line.
    - Symbiote 10y ago
      > Card can be duplicated with the strip and without the chip, then used as a regular legacy card (until those become uncommon). I don't think so. The card reader would demand that the chip be used. If there's no chip, the cashier should then call the police, as that's evidence of fraud.
      - chipperyman573 10y ago
        If there's no chip, do you really think a cashier would call the police? The cashier would assume the reader is broken, stick the card (without a chip) in the chip reader 3 times to force a swipe and apologise for a "broken reader"
  - bernardlunn 10y ago
    It is supposed to be chip + pin. That works. chip + signature is a silly compromise that is as insecure as magstripe + signature.
    - aianus 10y ago
      How is it as insecure? You can't clone a chip card with a skimmer, you actually have to steal it.
      - cplease 10y ago
        All chip + signature cards in the USA have a stripe too (excepting maybe a tiny fraction of retail cards). They have to, or something like 90% of POS will not accept them. Full rollout is going to take years. As long as there is a stripe and merchants accept the stripe, the stripe can be cloned. Yes, retailers who take the stripe when the issued card has a chip will be on the hook instead of the bank, but thieves don't care if the retailer or the bank pays.
        aianus 10y ago
        A PIN vs. a signature via the chip makes no difference if merchants are still accepting stripes. The stripe is the weakest link.
chiph 10y ago
Amex said Costco was 11% of their business (that breakup must have been really acrimonious), so I don't doubt that Citi is going to have scaling problems on-boarding that many new customers at once. It took a visit to the membership desk to get mine to work. Oh, and as a former Citi customer, if it weren't for that 4% back on gas purchases, I would be using someone else's card at Costco (you can use a membership card + any Visa-branded card there now).

pokstad 10y ago

My experiences going from Costco Amex to Costco Citibank: * Fraud protection learning seems to be reset from the old Amex history so I've had a regular purchase (sushi joint) get flagged. * Haven't found the ability to add spouse to web based account management. * New card issued has smart chip in it, which is a pain at most retailers since their readers require "eating" the card and take longer payment processing time before the card is ejected. So basically my older Amex was more convenient while using "inferior" tech. * Costco gas pumps seem to be updated with new Visa prompts for cards. I wonder what kind of hassle it was to update that system. * Apple Pay has a hard time recognizing my card with camera input. I had to manually enter information.

sbierwagen 10y ago
EMV (chip) cards are far, far more secure than magstripe cards. It's a tradeoff I'm happy to make, since my card number's been stolen 3 times in the last two years.
- cplease 10y ago
  How are the EMV chip + signature cards in USA being far, far more secure? User can just swipe and sign a stolen card same as always. Most retailers stll either incapable of using them or very forgiving as to signatures. Card can be duplicated with the strip and without the chip, then used as a regular legacy card (until those become uncommon). Finally, they can just steal the chip + signature cared, use the chip and they can still sign the slip and use it sama as ever.
  - madeofpalk 10y ago
    The key here is chip + signature, which has been removed in countries that have advanced their payment processing. Here in Australia you actually haven't been able to sign for a transaction for the past 2-ish years.
    - cplease 10y ago
      True, but the story is about glitches with Citigroup USA. pokstad is referring to Costco Citi cards in the USA. Some USA issues will allow you to SET a pin on chipcards (rarely by default), but they are not REQUIRED at the POS by any retailers in the USA. None will, because that's not the industry agreement standard and would lock out the majority of consumers. The adoption has been a giant clusterfuck. Most retailers are still taking stripe only. It's the weakest link. Until retailers stop accepting stripes and chip + signature, there's no need to steal the PIN. Hell, it's 2016 and I'm still encountering retailers who end up having to key in the card, or in a couple of cases still do offline processing with manual carbon-slip imprints. Our shitty American cards affect the rest of the world too. Traveling to Europe over the past decade+ until 2015 I apologize for my unexpectedly chipless card everywhere I went (never had much trouble using it though); same with Canada up to present. They all have chip+PIN, but our cards go through without and spit out a receipt with a signature line.
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    > Card can be duplicated with the strip and without the chip, then used as a regular legacy card (until those become uncommon). I don't think so. The card reader would demand that the chip be used. If there's no chip, the cashier should then call the police, as that's evidence of fraud.
    - chipperyman573 10y ago
      If there's no chip, do you really think a cashier would call the police? The cashier would assume the reader is broken, stick the card (without a chip) in the chip reader 3 times to force a swipe and apologise for a "broken reader"
- bernardlunn 10y ago
  It is supposed to be chip + pin. That works. chip + signature is a silly compromise that is as insecure as magstripe + signature.
  - aianus 10y ago
    How is it as insecure? You can't clone a chip card with a skimmer, you actually have to steal it.
    - cplease 10y ago
      All chip + signature cards in the USA have a stripe too (excepting maybe a tiny fraction of retail cards). They have to, or something like 90% of POS will not accept them. Full rollout is going to take years. As long as there is a stripe and merchants accept the stripe, the stripe can be cloned. Yes, retailers who take the stripe when the issued card has a chip will be on the hook instead of the bank, but thieves don't care if the retailer or the bank pays.
      - aianus 10y ago
        A PIN vs. a signature via the chip makes no difference if merchants are still accepting stripes. The stripe is the weakest link.

chiph 10y ago

Amex said Costco was 11% of their business (that breakup must have been really acrimonious), so I don't doubt that Citi is going to have scaling problems on-boarding that many new customers at once. It took a visit to the membership desk to get mine to work. Oh, and as a former Citi customer, if it weren't for that 4% back on gas purchases, I would be using someone else's card at Costco (you can use a membership card + any Visa-branded card there now).