7 ms·

Citigroup Has ‘Technical Issue’ as Customers Say Accounts Frozen

49 points by apaprocki 10y ago

dmix 10y ago
> . A customer-service representative answering the firm’s help line said the bank is updating its systems, and was advising callers to try again in four hours. A really bad time to be updating any software. I feel bad for the people who are trying to buy prescription drugs or groceries. Not everyone has backup credit cards.
- mmsmatt 10y ago
  I doubt any transaction processing systems got updated at any bank in the past 48hrs with the Brexit vote in the air.
  - apaprocki 10y ago
    Then again I found this: https://www.iggsoftware.com/support/articles/ibank-5/citibank-down-for-maintenance-from-62016-62416/ https://www.iggsoftware.com/support/articles/ibank-5/citiban...
    - ratsbane 10y ago
      Good find. An "extended major release" while they're onboarding 11 million new customers sounds painful.
    - xiphias 10y ago
      It looks like they don't really care about distributed systems. With the current software methodologies planned global outages are not acceptable. It's still sad that banks like this can be one of the biggest because of their monopoly position.
- rbritton 10y ago
  We're switching away from credit cards as much as possible for that reason among others (e.g., we spend less when paying with something more tangible like cash). The only remaining use is for gas, hotels, and online purchases that I won't trust a debit card number to.
  - Kephael 10y ago
    I use credit cards like a debit card but get rewarded for using them. I pay them off in full every month, I have never once paid interest on a credit card bill.
    - notadoc 10y ago
      Me too, rewards plus the ability to easily contest and reverse fraudulent charges (which I have experienced multiple times) make a credit card infinitely better than a debit card.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - madeofpalk 10y ago
        Here in Australia you can just as easily contest charges on debit cards. Bizarre that such a protection elsewhere is limited to just credit cards.
    - mysterypie 10y ago
      > get rewarded for using them I understand why you want the rewards, and when I'm forced to use a credit card, I also want the reward. But we need to call out the bullshittedness of the system. Everything in the world is 2-3% more expensive just so that credit cards can "give" you 1% back as a "reward". (Similar situation: People who are thrilled with a tax refund. The government takes money away from their paycheck, then later gives part of it back. If they don't think about it, they think they're getting free money.) People get caught up in it as if credit card rewards are a good idea. It's not. It's a drag on the economy for the credit card companies to bake their costs into every transaction.
glasz 10y ago
is it just me or do such things happen more and more? i remember those things not occurring years and years in the past.
- emcq 10y ago
  There are more and more people with credit cards per centralized infrastructure to support payment transactions?
- ams6110 10y ago
  "move fast and break things" was a philosophy that would get you fired years in the past.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    It still does in the real world.
ratsbane 10y ago
The timing of this as the switchover of Costco cards from Amex to Citi is happening certainly suggests a scaling problem regardless of the "updating its systems" excuse. I've heard Amex blamed for losing the Costco deal, but given Amex's superlative customer service and Citi's less-than-optimal reputation, maybe Costco will turn out to be the bigger loser.
- pokstad 10y ago
  My experiences going from Costco Amex to Costco Citibank: * Fraud protection learning seems to be reset from the old Amex history so I've had a regular purchase (sushi joint) get flagged. * Haven't found the ability to add spouse to web based account management. * New card issued has smart chip in it, which is a pain at most retailers since their readers require "eating" the card and take longer payment processing time before the card is ejected. So basically my older Amex was more convenient while using "inferior" tech. * Costco gas pumps seem to be updated with new Visa prompts for cards. I wonder what kind of hassle it was to update that system. * Apple Pay has a hard time recognizing my card with camera input. I had to manually enter information.
  - sbierwagen 10y ago
    EMV (chip) cards are far, far more secure than magstripe cards. It's a tradeoff I'm happy to make, since my card number's been stolen 3 times in the last two years.
    - cplease 10y ago
      How are the EMV chip + signature cards in USA being far, far more secure? User can just swipe and sign a stolen card same as always. Most retailers stll either incapable of using them or very forgiving as to signatures. Card can be duplicated with the strip and without the chip, then used as a regular legacy card (until those become uncommon). Finally, they can just steal the chip + signature cared, use the chip and they can still sign the slip and use it sama as ever.
      - 10y ago
apaprocki 10y ago
Note: this isn't just credit cards -- I personally found this right as it happened. My ATM card was declined for any amount at a BoA ATM. Annoyed, I went down to the Citi branch outside where all 8 or so ATMs had "out of order" screens and there was half a dozen people milling about saying it was down everywhere. Took to Twitter and lots were repeating it and saying web access and the mobile apps were down as well.
- themartorana 10y ago
  I know you could go inside, but this seems like the kind of thing that could cause a run on the bank. Well, at least if Mary Poppins is to be believed.
notadoc 10y ago
Bad timing with Brexit paranoia, too.
onlycommenting 10y ago
USAA recently had the same issue; transactions not processing. They, like Costco, switched credit card issuers. So it may very well be a scaling issue like importing millions of customers into the DB.
kinai 10y ago
What do you expect? Every bank customer is nothing but a slave. Banks own you
- solotronics 10y ago
  free yourself, get some bitcoin
- kinai 10y ago
  Love how I get down votes for the truth. If your bank refuses for any reason to give you access to your account you probably lose your job, your apartment, loans ...it will ruin your life for good. Happens to lot of people, its no mystery. In Western Europe you can't even have a normal average legal life without a bank account, that is why they had to introduce laws to force the banks to give everybody an account, because before banks often refused to do so and then peopl where stuck and their situation spiraled down the drain.
  - gpvos 10y ago
    As you say yourself, the banks are regulated so they cannot do anything they want with you. So they do not quite own you. Anyway, you are going to be dependent on some structures of society unless you want to live on your own in the woods.
  - dang 10y ago
    Please don't post unsubstantive rants, and please don't break the HN guidelines by going on about downvotes (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). Especially not "Love how I get down votes for the truth", which is the most tedious trope of them all.
kchoudhu 10y ago
Anyone who has spent any amount of time dealing with Citi saw this coming from a mile away. Over at /r/churning, Citi's customer facing tech stack is the butt of many jokes, and there is no reason to believe their merchant facing services are any better. Example: I was recently told by Citi to create a new account after getting locked out of my old one. This isn't the first time this has happened: I am now on username.4 on their website, and my wife and I have made a point of not putting any critical charges on Citi cards. Costco may have saved a few bucks by ditching Amex, but they'll pay a price in customer satisfaction in the long run. Given their usual customer focused orientation, I'm surprised they thought this would be a good tradeoff.
- kowdermeister 10y ago
  > I am now on username.4 May I ask why didn't you drop by their office and tell them they are idiots and cancel your account after the second or third time?
  - kchoudhu 10y ago
    Because dealing with their stupidity has allowed me to not pay for air travel over the last decade. Life is a series of tradeoffs, sadly.

49 points by apaprocki 10y ago

dmix 10y ago

> . A customer-service representative answering the firm’s help line said the bank is updating its systems, and was advising callers to try again in four hours. A really bad time to be updating any software. I feel bad for the people who are trying to buy prescription drugs or groceries. Not everyone has backup credit cards.

mmsmatt 10y ago
I doubt any transaction processing systems got updated at any bank in the past 48hrs with the Brexit vote in the air.
- apaprocki 10y ago
  Then again I found this: https://www.iggsoftware.com/support/articles/ibank-5/citibank-down-for-maintenance-from-62016-62416/ https://www.iggsoftware.com/support/articles/ibank-5/citiban...
  - ratsbane 10y ago
    Good find. An "extended major release" while they're onboarding 11 million new customers sounds painful.
  - xiphias 10y ago
    It looks like they don't really care about distributed systems. With the current software methodologies planned global outages are not acceptable. It's still sad that banks like this can be one of the biggest because of their monopoly position.
rbritton 10y ago
We're switching away from credit cards as much as possible for that reason among others (e.g., we spend less when paying with something more tangible like cash). The only remaining use is for gas, hotels, and online purchases that I won't trust a debit card number to.
- Kephael 10y ago
  I use credit cards like a debit card but get rewarded for using them. I pay them off in full every month, I have never once paid interest on a credit card bill.
  - notadoc 10y ago
    Me too, rewards plus the ability to easily contest and reverse fraudulent charges (which I have experienced multiple times) make a credit card infinitely better than a debit card.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - madeofpalk 10y ago
      Here in Australia you can just as easily contest charges on debit cards. Bizarre that such a protection elsewhere is limited to just credit cards.
  - mysterypie 10y ago
    > get rewarded for using them I understand why you want the rewards, and when I'm forced to use a credit card, I also want the reward. But we need to call out the bullshittedness of the system. Everything in the world is 2-3% more expensive just so that credit cards can "give" you 1% back as a "reward". (Similar situation: People who are thrilled with a tax refund. The government takes money away from their paycheck, then later gives part of it back. If they don't think about it, they think they're getting free money.) People get caught up in it as if credit card rewards are a good idea. It's not. It's a drag on the economy for the credit card companies to bake their costs into every transaction.

glasz 10y ago

is it just me or do such things happen more and more? i remember those things not occurring years and years in the past.

emcq 10y ago
There are more and more people with credit cards per centralized infrastructure to support payment transactions?
ams6110 10y ago
"move fast and break things" was a philosophy that would get you fired years in the past.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  It still does in the real world.

ratsbane 10y ago

The timing of this as the switchover of Costco cards from Amex to Citi is happening certainly suggests a scaling problem regardless of the "updating its systems" excuse. I've heard Amex blamed for losing the Costco deal, but given Amex's superlative customer service and Citi's less-than-optimal reputation, maybe Costco will turn out to be the bigger loser.

pokstad 10y ago
My experiences going from Costco Amex to Costco Citibank: * Fraud protection learning seems to be reset from the old Amex history so I've had a regular purchase (sushi joint) get flagged. * Haven't found the ability to add spouse to web based account management. * New card issued has smart chip in it, which is a pain at most retailers since their readers require "eating" the card and take longer payment processing time before the card is ejected. So basically my older Amex was more convenient while using "inferior" tech. * Costco gas pumps seem to be updated with new Visa prompts for cards. I wonder what kind of hassle it was to update that system. * Apple Pay has a hard time recognizing my card with camera input. I had to manually enter information.
- sbierwagen 10y ago
  EMV (chip) cards are far, far more secure than magstripe cards. It's a tradeoff I'm happy to make, since my card number's been stolen 3 times in the last two years.
  - cplease 10y ago
    How are the EMV chip + signature cards in USA being far, far more secure? User can just swipe and sign a stolen card same as always. Most retailers stll either incapable of using them or very forgiving as to signatures. Card can be duplicated with the strip and without the chip, then used as a regular legacy card (until those become uncommon). Finally, they can just steal the chip + signature cared, use the chip and they can still sign the slip and use it sama as ever.
    - 10y ago

apaprocki 10y ago

Note: this isn't just credit cards -- I personally found this right as it happened. My ATM card was declined for any amount at a BoA ATM. Annoyed, I went down to the Citi branch outside where all 8 or so ATMs had "out of order" screens and there was half a dozen people milling about saying it was down everywhere. Took to Twitter and lots were repeating it and saying web access and the mobile apps were down as well.

themartorana 10y ago
I know you could go inside, but this seems like the kind of thing that could cause a run on the bank. Well, at least if Mary Poppins is to be believed.

notadoc 10y ago

Bad timing with Brexit paranoia, too.

onlycommenting 10y ago

USAA recently had the same issue; transactions not processing. They, like Costco, switched credit card issuers. So it may very well be a scaling issue like importing millions of customers into the DB.

kinai 10y ago

What do you expect? Every bank customer is nothing but a slave. Banks own you

solotronics 10y ago
free yourself, get some bitcoin
kinai 10y ago
Love how I get down votes for the truth. If your bank refuses for any reason to give you access to your account you probably lose your job, your apartment, loans ...it will ruin your life for good. Happens to lot of people, its no mystery. In Western Europe you can't even have a normal average legal life without a bank account, that is why they had to introduce laws to force the banks to give everybody an account, because before banks often refused to do so and then peopl where stuck and their situation spiraled down the drain.
- gpvos 10y ago
  As you say yourself, the banks are regulated so they cannot do anything they want with you. So they do not quite own you. Anyway, you are going to be dependent on some structures of society unless you want to live on your own in the woods.
- dang 10y ago
  Please don't post unsubstantive rants, and please don't break the HN guidelines by going on about downvotes (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). Especially not "Love how I get down votes for the truth", which is the most tedious trope of them all.

kchoudhu 10y ago

Anyone who has spent any amount of time dealing with Citi saw this coming from a mile away. Over at /r/churning, Citi's customer facing tech stack is the butt of many jokes, and there is no reason to believe their merchant facing services are any better. Example: I was recently told by Citi to create a new account after getting locked out of my old one. This isn't the first time this has happened: I am now on username.4 on their website, and my wife and I have made a point of not putting any critical charges on Citi cards. Costco may have saved a few bucks by ditching Amex, but they'll pay a price in customer satisfaction in the long run. Given their usual customer focused orientation, I'm surprised they thought this would be a good tradeoff.

kowdermeister 10y ago
> I am now on username.4 May I ask why didn't you drop by their office and tell them they are idiots and cancel your account after the second or third time?
- kchoudhu 10y ago
  Because dealing with their stupidity has allowed me to not pay for air travel over the last decade. Life is a series of tradeoffs, sadly.