7 ms·

Evidently the company realized they were fighting a losing battle, particularly after the CEO's disastrous response: https://forums.comodo.com/general-discussi

Evidently the company realized they were fighting a losing battle, particularly after the CEO's disastrous response: https://forums.comodo.com/general-discussion-off-topic-anything-and-everything/shame-on-you-comodo-t115958.0.html;msg837411#msg837411 https://forums.comodo.com/general-discussion-off-topic-anyth...

ars 10y ago
I give him credit for actually talking publicly with people. Most CEO's hide behind the PR department, or speak only one-way, without replies.
- kstrauser 10y ago
  I'm loathe to give him credit for publicly saying the most ridiculous things imaginable from one in his position.
  - ademarre 10y ago
    Right. I'm glad he spoke publicly because it shines more light on how ridiculous his position is. He actually tries to justify (or deflect) stealing the Let's Encrypt trademark by claiming LE stole the concept of a 90-day cycle. Ridiculous.
    - cbd1984 10y ago
      > He actually tries to justify (or deflect) stealing the Let's Encrypt trademark by claiming LE stole the concept of a 90-day cycle. Ridiculous. You can patent business methods, but saying a 90-day cycle is an "inventive concept" would likely cause a competent attorney to take you to one side and quietly convince you to not point that fifty-caliber BMG at your leg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_method_patent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_method_patent
    - hosh 10y ago
      That's not really the heart of the issue. He seems to be taking it as a point of honor, as if someone is stealing his business model ... but LE isn't a business. Comodo might or might have innovated a 90-day free trial. But let's say for a moment that Comodo did invent the 90-day free SSL trial. The intent is for the promotional purpose of purchasing paid products. LE has no paid tiers, and the primary motivation is to help the internet get encrypted, not to sell certificates. What's ridiculous isn't the idea that a 90-day cycle got "stolen", but that the Comodo CEO persistently thought of ISRG as a business competitor when they are not even in business. (No one is fighting you, dude). What I don't get is why so many people kept playing into that erroneous assumption of his instead of calling him on it.
      - detaro 10y ago
        Just because they are not in it for profit doesn't mean they are not a competitor to his business. It actually makes it worse from a purely business perspective.
        mirimir 10y ago
        Yes, and that's why he wanted the trademark. To kill them.
- woodman 10y ago
  > Most CEO's hide... As they should when they're so divorced from reality that they provide the justifications that this guy has. Open dialog is nice, but it doesn't mean much when the underlying message is that of hostility.
- Joeri 10y ago
  Yes, but his reply reminded me of the saying 'it is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool, than speak and remove all doubt'.
  - verroq 10y ago
    You'd feel better if he lied to your face?
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      No, but I'd feel better if he didn't spout a whole pile of gobbledygook. Let's just say that if this were the CEO of the company I was working for when faced with an existential crisis such as 'lets encrypt' I'd be out in a hurry. This can't end well and in spite of the situation he's still the most visible part of Comodo and should have a very cool and wise head at times like these. If this is any reflection on his mental state and processes Comodo is dead.
      - woodman 10y ago
        I've seen this happen before at a company that I'm too embarrassed to name, where leadership started to behave irrationally like ants infected by zombie fungus. The CEO wanted laptops to be stocked in checkout aisles - where impulse buy items go... I knew right then that we were dead. I don't think this guy has fungus on the brain, but there is an unseen cause: maybe it is ISRG eating his lunch, or maybe the thought of Microsoft doing the same as Win 10 pushes into the corporate environment.
      - aytekin 10y ago
        English is his second language. So, some mistakes are OK. But going public while emotional is never a good idea.
- KB1JWQ 10y ago
  Sure, but most CEO's tend to determine exactly what their public-facing position IS before speaking. In this case he looks the fool as they're walking back his statements.
jordigh 10y ago
"Intellectual copyrights", wtf is that?
- cbd1984 10y ago
  > "Intellectual copyrights", wtf is that? Either someone who doesn't know the law trying to look smart, or someone who does know the law trying to bullshit their way into being able to own more than the union of copyright law, patent law, and trademark law actually allow them to own. Believe it or not, the law doesn't recognize "It's mine because I scream loudly enough" as a valid concept.
paulftw 10y ago
One forum post, nine different sentences saying the same thing: "Comodo invented 90 day free certificate". To me this sounds quite similar to the ownership of the rectangle with rounded corners (I am actually not sure whose side I'm on in either dispute).
- amluto 10y ago
  > "Comodo invented 90 day free certificate" It's even sillier than that. Comodo has long offered a 90 day free trial cert. You have to pay to renew. Let's Encrypt gives a 90 day free cert that's freely renewable as many times as you want along with an API to renew it. These aren't the same business models at all.
  - hosh 10y ago
    As far as I can tell, Let's Encrypt isn't a business model. It's funded by ISRG who describes themselves as a public-benefit corporation and is tax-exempt by the US tax authority. I don't see any direct profit motive for the ISRG itself, though there may be indirect profit benefits to the sponsors[1]. I don't see any direct ways Let's Encrypt takes payment; more likely, their revenue comes from donations. What I don't get is why the CEO of Comodo, all the people on the thread all seem to assume Let's Encrypt has a business model, and that they are a competitor. The Comodo CEO seemed to keep coming back to that point, taking all of this personally. There is no business model to steal from Comodo because Let's Encrypt is not a business. And people kept responding and upholding that assumption? Can someone give me a sanity check here on my logic? Am I the only person who sees this? [1] https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/what-is-the-business-model/310 https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/what-is-the-business-mod...
    - mikeash 10y ago
      Let's Encrypt offers something for free that Comodo charges money for. They are a competitor, even if they don't make money. I think Comodo was crazy here, but I can totally understand why they see Let's Encrypt as a threat.
dimdimdim 10y ago
Shows how most CEOs of even large companies are human like everyone else, not the "super mature", "super calculated", "super intelligent" begins they are made out to be. It's also important to note the arrogance - invented the 90 day trial :D
- TruthAndDare 10y ago
  > Shows how most CEOs of even large companies are human like everyone else Um, it doesn't really say anything about most CEOs, does it? Actually, I think it shows how this guy is different from others, because he seems more nutty than most people.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    How did someone like this become CEO? Or is it just his response to breaking under the pressure for the first time?
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      Because he founded the company.
      - gardnr 10y ago
        Dont need basic grammer to fund a company.
        umurkontaci 10y ago
        Oh the irony
        tankenmate 10y ago
        Poe's law[0] applied to grammar? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
fapjacks 10y ago
Tangential, but what in the hell is with the whole thing where company execs refuse to use "I" in a sentence? Read anything typed up by some founder or something, and you see sentence after sentence deliberately omitting self-reference. Here specifically: "If they have right to it then more than happy to comply"... If they have right to it then I am/we are more than happy to comply. Anytime someone posts email correspondence on HN, it's inevitably a conversation devoid of self-referential terminology, even in totally innocuous sentences. "More than happy to X. Concerned about the thing with Y. Call this afternoon after meeting with Z." It's totally annoying.
- woodman 10y ago
  The use of "I" vs "we" has been studied by a lot of people in a lot of different contexts, and intelligent people have arrived at very different conclusions. So I have no idea what a complete lack of attribution means, but I'm leaning towards it being an extreme version of "we". I believe to be an avoidance of personal responsibility and a hamfisted attempt at emotional manipulation, because it has absolutely no influence over logically guided decision making.
  - philipov 10y ago
    With sentences like 'How is that making internet safer???"' I think a simpler explanation would be that he's Posting On Forums While Drunk.
    - DanBC 10y ago
      He's speaking English as a second language. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melih_Abdulhayo%C4%9Flu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melih_Abdulhayo%C4%9Flu
    - turksforthewin 10y ago
      He's Turkish. English isn't his first language.
      - 10y ago
orf 10y ago
That whole thread is worth a read. Here is a global forum moderator slating the CEO: https://forums.comodo.com/general-discussion-off-topic-anything-and-everything/shame-on-you-comodo-t115958.0.html;msg837498#msg837498 https://forums.comodo.com/general-discussion-off-topic-anyth...
kordless 10y ago
> Trying to piggy back on our business model and copying our model of giving certificates for 90 days for free is not ethical. I can't even imagine what he was thinking when he was saying this. Well, I can imagine dissonance, but not on the level from where this comes. It's literally insane, given it's business, and software business at that.
spyder 10y ago
"trying to get your loyal but "blind" followers to bully another enterprise via their tweets. It won't work!" Looks like it works. :D
- woodman 10y ago
  "You have the power Mike Please make it stop" -- Paul Christoforo, while being crushed by the internet hate machine.
  - ThisIs_MyName 10y ago
    Damn, what a shit show: http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-christoforo-pr-guy-penny-arcade-fail-2011-12 http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-christoforo-pr-guy-penny...

ars 10y ago

I give him credit for actually talking publicly with people. Most CEO's hide behind the PR department, or speak only one-way, without replies.

kstrauser 10y ago
I'm loathe to give him credit for publicly saying the most ridiculous things imaginable from one in his position.
- ademarre 10y ago
  Right. I'm glad he spoke publicly because it shines more light on how ridiculous his position is. He actually tries to justify (or deflect) stealing the Let's Encrypt trademark by claiming LE stole the concept of a 90-day cycle. Ridiculous.
  - cbd1984 10y ago
    > He actually tries to justify (or deflect) stealing the Let's Encrypt trademark by claiming LE stole the concept of a 90-day cycle. Ridiculous. You can patent business methods, but saying a 90-day cycle is an "inventive concept" would likely cause a competent attorney to take you to one side and quietly convince you to not point that fifty-caliber BMG at your leg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_method_patent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_method_patent
  - hosh 10y ago
    That's not really the heart of the issue. He seems to be taking it as a point of honor, as if someone is stealing his business model ... but LE isn't a business. Comodo might or might have innovated a 90-day free trial. But let's say for a moment that Comodo did invent the 90-day free SSL trial. The intent is for the promotional purpose of purchasing paid products. LE has no paid tiers, and the primary motivation is to help the internet get encrypted, not to sell certificates. What's ridiculous isn't the idea that a 90-day cycle got "stolen", but that the Comodo CEO persistently thought of ISRG as a business competitor when they are not even in business. (No one is fighting you, dude). What I don't get is why so many people kept playing into that erroneous assumption of his instead of calling him on it.
    - detaro 10y ago
      Just because they are not in it for profit doesn't mean they are not a competitor to his business. It actually makes it worse from a purely business perspective.
      - mirimir 10y ago
        Yes, and that's why he wanted the trademark. To kill them.
woodman 10y ago
> Most CEO's hide... As they should when they're so divorced from reality that they provide the justifications that this guy has. Open dialog is nice, but it doesn't mean much when the underlying message is that of hostility.
Joeri 10y ago
Yes, but his reply reminded me of the saying 'it is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool, than speak and remove all doubt'.
- verroq 10y ago
  You'd feel better if he lied to your face?
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    No, but I'd feel better if he didn't spout a whole pile of gobbledygook. Let's just say that if this were the CEO of the company I was working for when faced with an existential crisis such as 'lets encrypt' I'd be out in a hurry. This can't end well and in spite of the situation he's still the most visible part of Comodo and should have a very cool and wise head at times like these. If this is any reflection on his mental state and processes Comodo is dead.
    - woodman 10y ago
      I've seen this happen before at a company that I'm too embarrassed to name, where leadership started to behave irrationally like ants infected by zombie fungus. The CEO wanted laptops to be stocked in checkout aisles - where impulse buy items go... I knew right then that we were dead. I don't think this guy has fungus on the brain, but there is an unseen cause: maybe it is ISRG eating his lunch, or maybe the thought of Microsoft doing the same as Win 10 pushes into the corporate environment.
    - aytekin 10y ago
      English is his second language. So, some mistakes are OK. But going public while emotional is never a good idea.
KB1JWQ 10y ago
Sure, but most CEO's tend to determine exactly what their public-facing position IS before speaking. In this case he looks the fool as they're walking back his statements.

jordigh 10y ago

"Intellectual copyrights", wtf is that?

cbd1984 10y ago
> "Intellectual copyrights", wtf is that? Either someone who doesn't know the law trying to look smart, or someone who does know the law trying to bullshit their way into being able to own more than the union of copyright law, patent law, and trademark law actually allow them to own. Believe it or not, the law doesn't recognize "It's mine because I scream loudly enough" as a valid concept.

paulftw 10y ago

One forum post, nine different sentences saying the same thing: "Comodo invented 90 day free certificate". To me this sounds quite similar to the ownership of the rectangle with rounded corners (I am actually not sure whose side I'm on in either dispute).

amluto 10y ago
> "Comodo invented 90 day free certificate" It's even sillier than that. Comodo has long offered a 90 day free trial cert. You have to pay to renew. Let's Encrypt gives a 90 day free cert that's freely renewable as many times as you want along with an API to renew it. These aren't the same business models at all.
- hosh 10y ago
  As far as I can tell, Let's Encrypt isn't a business model. It's funded by ISRG who describes themselves as a public-benefit corporation and is tax-exempt by the US tax authority. I don't see any direct profit motive for the ISRG itself, though there may be indirect profit benefits to the sponsors[1]. I don't see any direct ways Let's Encrypt takes payment; more likely, their revenue comes from donations. What I don't get is why the CEO of Comodo, all the people on the thread all seem to assume Let's Encrypt has a business model, and that they are a competitor. The Comodo CEO seemed to keep coming back to that point, taking all of this personally. There is no business model to steal from Comodo because Let's Encrypt is not a business. And people kept responding and upholding that assumption? Can someone give me a sanity check here on my logic? Am I the only person who sees this? [1] https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/what-is-the-business-model/310 https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/what-is-the-business-mod...
  - mikeash 10y ago
    Let's Encrypt offers something for free that Comodo charges money for. They are a competitor, even if they don't make money. I think Comodo was crazy here, but I can totally understand why they see Let's Encrypt as a threat.

dimdimdim 10y ago

Shows how most CEOs of even large companies are human like everyone else, not the "super mature", "super calculated", "super intelligent" begins they are made out to be. It's also important to note the arrogance - invented the 90 day trial :D

TruthAndDare 10y ago
> Shows how most CEOs of even large companies are human like everyone else Um, it doesn't really say anything about most CEOs, does it? Actually, I think it shows how this guy is different from others, because he seems more nutty than most people.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  How did someone like this become CEO? Or is it just his response to breaking under the pressure for the first time?
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    Because he founded the company.
    - gardnr 10y ago
      Dont need basic grammer to fund a company.
      - umurkontaci 10y ago
        Oh the irony
        tankenmate 10y ago
        Poe's law[0] applied to grammar? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

fapjacks 10y ago

Tangential, but what in the hell is with the whole thing where company execs refuse to use "I" in a sentence? Read anything typed up by some founder or something, and you see sentence after sentence deliberately omitting self-reference. Here specifically: "If they have right to it then more than happy to comply"... If they have right to it then I am/we are more than happy to comply. Anytime someone posts email correspondence on HN, it's inevitably a conversation devoid of self-referential terminology, even in totally innocuous sentences. "More than happy to X. Concerned about the thing with Y. Call this afternoon after meeting with Z." It's totally annoying.

woodman 10y ago
The use of "I" vs "we" has been studied by a lot of people in a lot of different contexts, and intelligent people have arrived at very different conclusions. So I have no idea what a complete lack of attribution means, but I'm leaning towards it being an extreme version of "we". I believe to be an avoidance of personal responsibility and a hamfisted attempt at emotional manipulation, because it has absolutely no influence over logically guided decision making.
- philipov 10y ago
  With sentences like 'How is that making internet safer???"' I think a simpler explanation would be that he's Posting On Forums While Drunk.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    He's speaking English as a second language. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melih_Abdulhayo%C4%9Flu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melih_Abdulhayo%C4%9Flu
  - turksforthewin 10y ago
    He's Turkish. English isn't his first language.
    - 10y ago

orf 10y ago

That whole thread is worth a read. Here is a global forum moderator slating the CEO: https://forums.comodo.com/general-discussion-off-topic-anything-and-everything/shame-on-you-comodo-t115958.0.html;msg837498#msg837498 https://forums.comodo.com/general-discussion-off-topic-anyth...

kordless 10y ago

> Trying to piggy back on our business model and copying our model of giving certificates for 90 days for free is not ethical. I can't even imagine what he was thinking when he was saying this. Well, I can imagine dissonance, but not on the level from where this comes. It's literally insane, given it's business, and software business at that.

spyder 10y ago

"trying to get your loyal but "blind" followers to bully another enterprise via their tweets. It won't work!" Looks like it works. :D

woodman 10y ago
"You have the power Mike Please make it stop" -- Paul Christoforo, while being crushed by the internet hate machine.
- ThisIs_MyName 10y ago
  Damn, what a shit show: http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-christoforo-pr-guy-penny-arcade-fail-2011-12 http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-christoforo-pr-guy-penny...