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> but keep in mind that the H-1B is for skilled labor that an employer couldn't find a citizen for at a price they were willing to pay Trust me, there are a l

> but keep in mind that the H-1B is for skilled labor that an employer couldn't find a citizen for at a price they were willing to pay Trust me, there are a lot of abuses of the H1B program from "main stream" tech companies.

bduerst 10y ago
Let's assume I don't trust what you're saying at face value. What are some examples or sources? The Disney debacle cost Infosys $69 million, and they're included in that 3-4% number I quoted if that's what you're thinking of.
- ones_and_zeros 10y ago
  I didn't down vote you but it really should be on you to inform yourself before you start making claims. - http://cis.org/PayScale-H1BWages http://cis.org/PayScale-H1BWages - The fallacy of a labor shortage is apparent when you look at it in terms of any other market. I don't say there is a Porsche shortage if I can't afford one. - 80% of H1-Bs come in at the lower 2 of 4 pay levels. In fact, there is so much variability in the salaries that you essentially have a very good case for hiring a software developer in SF for 60k or 140k and it's up to the employer to choose with little accountability. In fact, employers can provide their own wage survey data to support the wage on the application. - H-1B is for the best and brightest, so why are they typically low man on the totem pole making an "average" wage working on low impact projects? - The quality of foreign students, the bulk of H1B visa holders, has been studied and called in to question, http://www.epi.org/publication/bp356-foreign-students-best-brightest-immigration-policy/ http://www.epi.org/publication/bp356-foreign-students-best-b... - Entry level CS graduate wages have fallen 3.7% between 2014 and 2015 - "main stream" tech companies have recruiting processes that essentially give excusivity to foreign students. (Masters degree+ requirement, 6 month internships, OPT extension, etc) My feeling is we have plenty of unemployed and underemployed university educated people within our borders and I wish there was more of an effort from our government and industry to utilize those folks and only reach for the H1B when we really can't find the talent domestically.
  - bduerst 10y ago
    I agree, hence asking for more information when someone backs their claims with just, "trust me". - CIS is a anti-immigration think tank founded to provide numbers for the republican party. The study you link to is cherry picking data regarding location and prevailing wage. - There is also no way to prove if there is or is not a labor shortage. I think we can agree that this is something that can definitely be improved on. - Wages are long-tail distribution, so you're going to see lower tiers having higher enrollment. UCSIS reviews immigrants based on their experience and education levels, and will typically reject if the employer is under hiring. - You may be confusing the H1B with the O (Outstanding) visa. H1B is for talented labor only, it doesn't mean manager-level , so I'm not sure why that's your assumption. - Again, if you're assuming that you're filling the skilled labor shortage, that doesn't guarantee that you're hiring higher-quality skilled labor than the already-employed supply. The socioeconomic environment of skilled labor immigrants may be different enough to warrant such a gap, but that doesn't negate their current skills. We should definitely continue to question and evaluate the quality though. - And how exactly is a 3.7% drop in CS wages attributable to the H1B program? H1B immigration caps (supply) haven't changed for years. H1B visa != outsourcing. - You'll need to prove this claim with more than just "trust me" too. This may come across as harsh, but your feelings don't really matter on the issue because they are likely biased. The U.S. is currently at a record low of unemployment, and the H1B caps haven't increased in years, meaning that the H1B visa holders are not likely causing whatever it is you're feeling.

bduerst 10y ago

Let's assume I don't trust what you're saying at face value. What are some examples or sources? The Disney debacle cost Infosys $69 million, and they're included in that 3-4% number I quoted if that's what you're thinking of.

ones_and_zeros 10y ago
I didn't down vote you but it really should be on you to inform yourself before you start making claims. - http://cis.org/PayScale-H1BWages http://cis.org/PayScale-H1BWages - The fallacy of a labor shortage is apparent when you look at it in terms of any other market. I don't say there is a Porsche shortage if I can't afford one. - 80% of H1-Bs come in at the lower 2 of 4 pay levels. In fact, there is so much variability in the salaries that you essentially have a very good case for hiring a software developer in SF for 60k or 140k and it's up to the employer to choose with little accountability. In fact, employers can provide their own wage survey data to support the wage on the application. - H-1B is for the best and brightest, so why are they typically low man on the totem pole making an "average" wage working on low impact projects? - The quality of foreign students, the bulk of H1B visa holders, has been studied and called in to question, http://www.epi.org/publication/bp356-foreign-students-best-brightest-immigration-policy/ http://www.epi.org/publication/bp356-foreign-students-best-b... - Entry level CS graduate wages have fallen 3.7% between 2014 and 2015 - "main stream" tech companies have recruiting processes that essentially give excusivity to foreign students. (Masters degree+ requirement, 6 month internships, OPT extension, etc) My feeling is we have plenty of unemployed and underemployed university educated people within our borders and I wish there was more of an effort from our government and industry to utilize those folks and only reach for the H1B when we really can't find the talent domestically.
- bduerst 10y ago
  I agree, hence asking for more information when someone backs their claims with just, "trust me". - CIS is a anti-immigration think tank founded to provide numbers for the republican party. The study you link to is cherry picking data regarding location and prevailing wage. - There is also no way to prove if there is or is not a labor shortage. I think we can agree that this is something that can definitely be improved on. - Wages are long-tail distribution, so you're going to see lower tiers having higher enrollment. UCSIS reviews immigrants based on their experience and education levels, and will typically reject if the employer is under hiring. - You may be confusing the H1B with the O (Outstanding) visa. H1B is for talented labor only, it doesn't mean manager-level , so I'm not sure why that's your assumption. - Again, if you're assuming that you're filling the skilled labor shortage, that doesn't guarantee that you're hiring higher-quality skilled labor than the already-employed supply. The socioeconomic environment of skilled labor immigrants may be different enough to warrant such a gap, but that doesn't negate their current skills. We should definitely continue to question and evaluate the quality though. - And how exactly is a 3.7% drop in CS wages attributable to the H1B program? H1B immigration caps (supply) haven't changed for years. H1B visa != outsourcing. - You'll need to prove this claim with more than just "trust me" too. This may come across as harsh, but your feelings don't really matter on the issue because they are likely biased. The U.S. is currently at a record low of unemployment, and the H1B caps haven't increased in years, meaning that the H1B visa holders are not likely causing whatever it is you're feeling.