5 ms·

It's more like one spouse saying "I'm leaving you, please don't hurt the children". (By analogy, the citizens of Britain/France/etc are the children, who'd lik

It's more like one spouse saying "I'm leaving you, please don't hurt the children". (By analogy, the citizens of Britain/France/etc are the children, who'd like to continue to play with one another, but perhaps one of their abusive parents will use violence to prevent this.)

masklinn 10y ago
> It's more like one spouse saying "I'm leaving you, please don't hurt the children". No, it really isn't. > By analogy, the citizens of Britain/France/etc are the children, who'd like to continue to play with one another, but perhaps one of their abusive parents will use violence to prevent this. So the UK left with one of the children and is telling the others they can't see them anymore.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  According to you it's the EU who will do these things. Britain and #leave wants a free trade agreement similar to Canada, it's the EU who won't give it to them.
tomp 10y ago
I agree with yummyfajitas here. A rational person would say "OK, we're not compatible, let's split up, but no point destroying the house, spending all our money on lawyers and kill each other". An irrational, emotional, greedy or terribly insecure person would say "You? Leaving me? How could you?! You FUCKER! I'LL RUIN YOU!!! AAAARGGGGGHHHH!!!!!"
- masklinn 10y ago
  You've got your roles exactly inverted here. The UK left screaming, huffing and smashing the door but apparently expecting the same benefits they enjoyed beforehand, as a rational person the EU would have no reason whatsoever to entertain that behaviour let alone reward it. The EU has no rational reason to be especially sweet on the UK, and looking internally and at the future it can't even be seen as that as it would bolster eurosceptic movements inside the Union. There's no point of view under which being soft on the UK is rational.
  - tomp 10y ago
    Well, yes, I guess being mean is rational, and being nice irrational.
    - TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
      But hey - that's capitalism.
    - masklinn 10y ago
      > Well, yes, I guess being mean is rational, and being nice irrational. You're the one who brought on the rationality argument, and while things differ across conflicts, in this specific instance yes being "mean"[0] is rational. [0] if "not bending over to the whims of an asshole" is considered mean these days
  - RickHull 10y ago
    > The UK left screaming, huffing and smashing the door Huh? This is your characterization of a referendum on membership?
    - jpdus 10y ago
      Well, actually it is a good characterization of the leave campaign, which won the vote and thus a valid analogy.
      - tomp 10y ago
        It's an equally good characterization of the remain campaign as well, so I'm not sure that's a good argument...
      - RickHull 10y ago
        If that's a valid characterization of the internal debate, of what concern is that to the EU? So far, I don't see the UK screaming, huffing, or smashing doors with respect to the EU.
- Tomte 10y ago
  Noone really advocates any form of punishment. But the UK got extraordinarily preferential treatment in the EU all those decades. What most people actually advocate is real, tough negotiations, driven by both parties' interests. And the outcome will --predictably-- not what the Leavers wished for. It will also not be what the EU wished for. That ship has sailed. Britain will get a deal, based on relative strengths and things the EU and Britain have to offer and the other side wants. And very much depending on the timeframe the Brits are shooting for. If they want something quick (one to three years) only the Norwegian EFTA model is realistic. If ten to fifteen years are quick enough all kinds of complicated deals can be negotiated. Can Britain really wait that long?
dragonwriter 10y ago
But its the citizens of Britain that decided that they were leaving, so who is supposed to be the "parent" that's leaving if the citizens of Britain are "the children"?
- EdHominem 10y ago
  The citizens who didn't want to leave. Who will now be forbidden to walk across what was once an open border, etc.

masklinn 10y ago

> It's more like one spouse saying "I'm leaving you, please don't hurt the children". No, it really isn't. > By analogy, the citizens of Britain/France/etc are the children, who'd like to continue to play with one another, but perhaps one of their abusive parents will use violence to prevent this. So the UK left with one of the children and is telling the others they can't see them anymore.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
According to you it's the EU who will do these things. Britain and #leave wants a free trade agreement similar to Canada, it's the EU who won't give it to them.

tomp 10y ago

I agree with yummyfajitas here. A rational person would say "OK, we're not compatible, let's split up, but no point destroying the house, spending all our money on lawyers and kill each other". An irrational, emotional, greedy or terribly insecure person would say "You? Leaving me? How could you?! You FUCKER! I'LL RUIN YOU!!! AAAARGGGGGHHHH!!!!!"

masklinn 10y ago
You've got your roles exactly inverted here. The UK left screaming, huffing and smashing the door but apparently expecting the same benefits they enjoyed beforehand, as a rational person the EU would have no reason whatsoever to entertain that behaviour let alone reward it. The EU has no rational reason to be especially sweet on the UK, and looking internally and at the future it can't even be seen as that as it would bolster eurosceptic movements inside the Union. There's no point of view under which being soft on the UK is rational.
- tomp 10y ago
  Well, yes, I guess being mean is rational, and being nice irrational.
  - TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
    But hey - that's capitalism.
  - masklinn 10y ago
    > Well, yes, I guess being mean is rational, and being nice irrational. You're the one who brought on the rationality argument, and while things differ across conflicts, in this specific instance yes being "mean"[0] is rational. [0] if "not bending over to the whims of an asshole" is considered mean these days
- RickHull 10y ago
  > The UK left screaming, huffing and smashing the door Huh? This is your characterization of a referendum on membership?
  - jpdus 10y ago
    Well, actually it is a good characterization of the leave campaign, which won the vote and thus a valid analogy.
    - tomp 10y ago
      It's an equally good characterization of the remain campaign as well, so I'm not sure that's a good argument...
    - RickHull 10y ago
      If that's a valid characterization of the internal debate, of what concern is that to the EU? So far, I don't see the UK screaming, huffing, or smashing doors with respect to the EU.
Tomte 10y ago
Noone really advocates any form of punishment. But the UK got extraordinarily preferential treatment in the EU all those decades. What most people actually advocate is real, tough negotiations, driven by both parties' interests. And the outcome will --predictably-- not what the Leavers wished for. It will also not be what the EU wished for. That ship has sailed. Britain will get a deal, based on relative strengths and things the EU and Britain have to offer and the other side wants. And very much depending on the timeframe the Brits are shooting for. If they want something quick (one to three years) only the Norwegian EFTA model is realistic. If ten to fifteen years are quick enough all kinds of complicated deals can be negotiated. Can Britain really wait that long?

dragonwriter 10y ago

But its the citizens of Britain that decided that they were leaving, so who is supposed to be the "parent" that's leaving if the citizens of Britain are "the children"?

EdHominem 10y ago
The citizens who didn't want to leave. Who will now be forbidden to walk across what was once an open border, etc.