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Hey Robert - My Question: What do you think would happen to tech in America if H1b's were done away with and all foreign workers had to leave?

CephalopodMD 10y ago
Related question, would Donald Trump actually be able to do away with the H1B as he suggested he would a couple of months ago?
- jedmeyers 10y ago
  Can you please point to the source where Trump said he would 'do away with the H1B'?
  - bduerst 10y ago
    He's flip flopped on in several times now, going from banning to allowing to ending it completely. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/21/donald-trump-flip-flops-then-flips-and-flops-more-on-h-1b-visas/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/...
- hughes 10y ago
  He did not suggest doing away with the H1B program. He did say he wants to end abuse of the H1B program. H1B abuse typically involves posting an absurdly specific or unappealing set of requirements in a job ad tailored to the person you're trying to get a visa for. If any qualified US person actually does apply, they are rejected for whatever spurious reason. The employer can then claim "no suitable candidate can be found" and get a visa for their immigrant. I'm not sure how this can be prevented.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Related question, would Donald Trump actually be able to do away with the H1B as he suggested he would a couple of months ago? The President can't do much, including defining or eliminating visa categories; most of what Presidential candidates campaign on are legislative priorities which would need to be passed by Congress. Congress absolutely could eliminate the H-1B.
bduerst 10y ago
Not Robert (and I defer to anything he has to say) but I teach a class that uses the LCA [H-1B] visa application database as a test dataset. If you banned all H-1Bs today, you would effectively be losing approximately half a million talented workers. Now, some would like to argue that this would "free up" half a million jobs for U.S. citizens, but keep in mind that the H-1B is for skilled labor that an employer couldn't find a citizen for. There are H-1B abusers, like Wipro, Qualcomm, etc., but they only accounted for about 3-4% of the applications in 2015, and are (thankfully) being dealt with on an increasingly frequent basis.
- ones_and_zeros 10y ago
  > but keep in mind that the H-1B is for skilled labor that an employer couldn't find a citizen for at a price they were willing to pay Trust me, there are a lot of abuses of the H1B program from "main stream" tech companies.
  - bduerst 10y ago
    Let's assume I don't trust what you're saying at face value. What are some examples or sources? The Disney debacle cost Infosys $69 million, and they're included in that 3-4% number I quoted if that's what you're thinking of.
    - ones_and_zeros 10y ago
      I didn't down vote you but it really should be on you to inform yourself before you start making claims. - http://cis.org/PayScale-H1BWages http://cis.org/PayScale-H1BWages - The fallacy of a labor shortage is apparent when you look at it in terms of any other market. I don't say there is a Porsche shortage if I can't afford one. - 80% of H1-Bs come in at the lower 2 of 4 pay levels. In fact, there is so much variability in the salaries that you essentially have a very good case for hiring a software developer in SF for 60k or 140k and it's up to the employer to choose with little accountability. In fact, employers can provide their own wage survey data to support the wage on the application. - H-1B is for the best and brightest, so why are they typically low man on the totem pole making an "average" wage working on low impact projects? - The quality of foreign students, the bulk of H1B visa holders, has been studied and called in to question, http://www.epi.org/publication/bp356-foreign-students-best-brightest-immigration-policy/ http://www.epi.org/publication/bp356-foreign-students-best-b... - Entry level CS graduate wages have fallen 3.7% between 2014 and 2015 - "main stream" tech companies have recruiting processes that essentially give excusivity to foreign students. (Masters degree+ requirement, 6 month internships, OPT extension, etc) My feeling is we have plenty of unemployed and underemployed university educated people within our borders and I wish there was more of an effort from our government and industry to utilize those folks and only reach for the H1B when we really can't find the talent domestically.
dang 10y ago
Probably too political a question to begin with and definitely gets too political downthread.

CephalopodMD 10y ago

Related question, would Donald Trump actually be able to do away with the H1B as he suggested he would a couple of months ago?

jedmeyers 10y ago
Can you please point to the source where Trump said he would 'do away with the H1B'?
- bduerst 10y ago
  He's flip flopped on in several times now, going from banning to allowing to ending it completely. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/21/donald-trump-flip-flops-then-flips-and-flops-more-on-h-1b-visas/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/...
hughes 10y ago
He did not suggest doing away with the H1B program. He did say he wants to end abuse of the H1B program. H1B abuse typically involves posting an absurdly specific or unappealing set of requirements in a job ad tailored to the person you're trying to get a visa for. If any qualified US person actually does apply, they are rejected for whatever spurious reason. The employer can then claim "no suitable candidate can be found" and get a visa for their immigrant. I'm not sure how this can be prevented.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> Related question, would Donald Trump actually be able to do away with the H1B as he suggested he would a couple of months ago? The President can't do much, including defining or eliminating visa categories; most of what Presidential candidates campaign on are legislative priorities which would need to be passed by Congress. Congress absolutely could eliminate the H-1B.

bduerst 10y ago

Not Robert (and I defer to anything he has to say) but I teach a class that uses the LCA [H-1B] visa application database as a test dataset. If you banned all H-1Bs today, you would effectively be losing approximately half a million talented workers. Now, some would like to argue that this would "free up" half a million jobs for U.S. citizens, but keep in mind that the H-1B is for skilled labor that an employer couldn't find a citizen for. There are H-1B abusers, like Wipro, Qualcomm, etc., but they only accounted for about 3-4% of the applications in 2015, and are (thankfully) being dealt with on an increasingly frequent basis.

ones_and_zeros 10y ago
> but keep in mind that the H-1B is for skilled labor that an employer couldn't find a citizen for at a price they were willing to pay Trust me, there are a lot of abuses of the H1B program from "main stream" tech companies.
- bduerst 10y ago
  Let's assume I don't trust what you're saying at face value. What are some examples or sources? The Disney debacle cost Infosys $69 million, and they're included in that 3-4% number I quoted if that's what you're thinking of.
  - ones_and_zeros 10y ago
    I didn't down vote you but it really should be on you to inform yourself before you start making claims. - http://cis.org/PayScale-H1BWages http://cis.org/PayScale-H1BWages - The fallacy of a labor shortage is apparent when you look at it in terms of any other market. I don't say there is a Porsche shortage if I can't afford one. - 80% of H1-Bs come in at the lower 2 of 4 pay levels. In fact, there is so much variability in the salaries that you essentially have a very good case for hiring a software developer in SF for 60k or 140k and it's up to the employer to choose with little accountability. In fact, employers can provide their own wage survey data to support the wage on the application. - H-1B is for the best and brightest, so why are they typically low man on the totem pole making an "average" wage working on low impact projects? - The quality of foreign students, the bulk of H1B visa holders, has been studied and called in to question, http://www.epi.org/publication/bp356-foreign-students-best-brightest-immigration-policy/ http://www.epi.org/publication/bp356-foreign-students-best-b... - Entry level CS graduate wages have fallen 3.7% between 2014 and 2015 - "main stream" tech companies have recruiting processes that essentially give excusivity to foreign students. (Masters degree+ requirement, 6 month internships, OPT extension, etc) My feeling is we have plenty of unemployed and underemployed university educated people within our borders and I wish there was more of an effort from our government and industry to utilize those folks and only reach for the H1B when we really can't find the talent domestically.

dang 10y ago

Probably too political a question to begin with and definitely gets too political downthread.